Talk me out of a 300 Blackout
cavjock95
11:27p, 09/03/12
cavjock95
1876 posts, joined 12/13/2003
I almost have my mind made up. Why would you NOT choose this caliber?

TIA

Ride On!
phideaux_2003
11:39p, 09/03/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
Not trying to talk you out of it because I want one too, but ammo is a little pricy and can be hard to find sometimes. Also, running subsonic, it's almost impossible to get a projectile to expand properly. Rifle projectiles just aren't designed to expand at those velocities.

If you reload you can buy Outlaw State bullets and load some that will reliably expand, but they are long, both in length and price. Will require a little finesse to get them to cycle out of an AR.

Other than that, it's a freakin' amazing round. Check out Houston Armory in Stafford. They're the biggest .300AAC Blackout dealer on the Gulf Coast. They also make really nice proprietary barrels and custom rifles with Seekin's Precision uppers and lowers.

They also happen to carry our .300 Blackout ammo... :-)
Log
11:39p, 09/03/12
Log
9336 posts, joined 09/09/2004
Ammo price and availability. Limited range, especially if shooting subsonic, which you should only be doing if you've got a suppressor.
tx4guns
7:35a, 09/04/12
tx4guns
14308 posts, joined 09/29/2003
It's a great round for hunting out to 2-300 yards, but unless you're going to run a suppressor, you'd be better off with a 6.8 or 6.5. Much better performance at longer ranges and more energy.
cavjock95
9:40a, 09/05/12
cavjock95
1876 posts, joined 12/13/2003
Good points. Thanks.

Ride On!
RustyBoltz
10:38a, 09/05/12
RustyBoltz
1541 posts, joined 05/07/2010
IMO, It's a good round if you reload, are going to shoot suppressed and/or already have a rifle chambered in .223 that you can switch the barrel out on. Otherwise, depending on your application, there might be a better caliber for you.
RBoutdoors
12:02p, 09/05/12
RBoutdoors
2218 posts, joined 04/21/2006
Worthless round if it isn't on a AR platform
lglidewell
2:15p, 09/05/12
lglidewell
1122 posts, joined 08/17/2007
I'm building a bolt 300 blk out rifle that is going to be shot strictly subsonic for the 4 yr old. The only thing she'll be shooting at (50yds or less)is pigs and paper. I'll be dragging it to the bow blind as well to keep varmints at bay if they try and come in to steal my high dollar corn.
shalackin
2:18p, 09/05/12
shalackin
3706 posts, joined 03/17/2004
waiting on atf to get my paperwork done on my can and then I am buying an upper. Alrady have hte lower built. I can't wait. Plan on reloading subsonic and deer hunting the little llano deer at 100 yards in the peace and quiet!!
swampstander
6:09p, 09/05/12
swampstander
4253 posts, joined 09/16/2003
quote:
Worthless round if it isn't on a AR platform


If you hear one in a suppressed bolt gun you might change your mind.
rhtexfish
6:12p, 09/05/12
rhtexfish
8539 posts, joined 08/31/2006
If you reload you can get cost < .20/rd
Pros-
SBR performance
Good suppressed
Hunting<200

Cons
Range
Ammo availability locally
RBoutdoors
8:10p, 09/05/12
RBoutdoors
2218 posts, joined 04/21/2006
In a bolt gun it does nothing that the 308 can't do and the 308 can reach out to 600 yards and kill deer.
Ulysses90
9:56p, 09/05/12
Ulysses90
13682 posts, joined 05/01/2001
7.62x39mm upper. Lots of cheap ammo that you won't find for .300 Blackout.

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=U15A4CB-7.62X39
shalackin
10:05p, 09/05/12
shalackin
3706 posts, joined 03/17/2004
I have another question. I am still thinking of sbr'ing mine. Is there a performance difference between sbr and non sbr?
phideaux_2003
10:06p, 09/05/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
quote:
In a bolt gun it does nothing that the 308 can't do and the 308 can reach out to 600 yards and kill deer.


Wrong. In a bolt gun it can do something that a .308 can't do. It can not beat someone to death on recoil (like a child or woman or someone with shoulder problems) and it is EASILY suppressed to very quiet levels for not bothering neighbors and saving ones hearing. Ballistics similar to a .30-30 Win in subsonic, suppressed mode. It's definitely got its niche.

[This message has been edited by phideaux_2003 (edited 9/5/2012 10:11p).]
phideaux_2003
10:10p, 09/05/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
quote:
I have another question. I am still thinking of sbr'ing mine. Is there a performance difference between sbr and non sbr?


You'll get better velocity out of a carbine length barrel with standard ammo. If you get SBR subsonic specific ammo, you may go super sonic out of a carbine so suppressors may not be as effective on a carbine. If you're wanting to reach the range limits of the round, a carbine will be better for that. If you want it for inside 200 yards, you'll probably never miss the minor difference.
96AustinAg
2:31a, 09/06/12
96AustinAg
1674 posts, joined 10/11/1999
The beating you to death with recoil part is exactly the reason I am ditching the 308 bolt gun in favor of the 6.8 AR upper I just ordered. My 7 year old should be able to shoot that gun.
RBoutdoors
7:41a, 09/06/12
RBoutdoors
2218 posts, joined 04/21/2006
The only reason to have a blackout is if you have a can. If you have a can recoil is nothing And doesn't become an issue.

If you don't have a can you can buy reduced loads for the 308, which would still preform better than a blackout.

I have fired a number of whispers/blackouts and I have a number of 308s with subsonic Ammuntion. On both the loudest noise is the bullet flying. There is very little difference in the sound profile with a can on.

So like I said, in a bolt gun the 300 blackout is worthless round. The 308 can do everything a blackout can do and a lot more. Now if this is going on an AR the the blackout wins.
phideaux_2003
12:43p, 09/06/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
I'm not sure I've ever seen subsonic .308 ammo. Where do you get it? Is it expensive?

I know you could load it, but I guess it probably takes a special powder to take up all that case room.

Subsonic Blackout ammo is everywhere. If they sell Blackout ammo, you can bet they've got subsonic.

A black out has basically the same ballistic qualities as a .30-30 Win. Is a .30-30 in a bolt gun useless?
96AustinAg
2:19p, 09/06/12
96AustinAg
1674 posts, joined 10/11/1999
I don't get the subsonic craze except for maybe hog hunting or other varmits/pests where you want to take a lot of shots without spooking the targets right away. There is a reason that rifles are better than pistols ballistically for shooting stuff, and that reason is VELOCITY. Yeah, at one point I will probably get a suppressor I can slap on my 6.8 and my 5.56 from a noise reduction perspective, but I doubt I will really mess around with subsonics.

ETA - I have no problem with other people shooting subsonics. Having a super quiet rifle is probably as much of a giggle switch as having a select fire rifle... I just don't see where *I* personally will make use of it.

[This message has been edited by 96AustinAg (edited 9/6/2012 2:28p).]
96AustinAg
2:20p, 09/06/12
96AustinAg
1674 posts, joined 10/11/1999
phideaux, nothing wrong with 30-30 ballistics, but isn't that for the supersonic blackout round?
phideaux_2003
5:12p, 09/06/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
Yes sir, it is with the supersonic rounds. The discussion was in regards to the subsonic round in the .300 AAC BO as compared to the subsonic .308 WIN round. They're basically the same thing. In terms of the supersonic, yes, the .308 WIN can do a lot more than the .300 AAC BO, but that doesn't relegate the .300 AAC BO in supersonic loadings to "worthless" status at it appeared to be suggested.

[This message has been edited by phideaux_2003 (edited 9/6/2012 5:13p).]
phideaux_2003
5:15p, 09/06/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
Also, subsonic rounds through a suppressor are WICKED awesome for tactical applications. No muzzle blast, no flash, low sound... It's great for inside a house. Plus, subsonic rounds have less chance of over penetrating and killing someone two houses over, like some rifle rounds might do.
35chililights
6:07p, 09/06/12
35chililights
8796 posts, joined 12/03/2004
quote:
Plus, subsonic rounds have less chance of over penetrating and killing someone two houses over, like some rifle rounds might do.


source??
96AustinAg
8:30p, 09/06/12
96AustinAg
1674 posts, joined 10/11/1999
Yeah, don't agree with that one either. You just need properly designed rounds (like TAP). I would rather shoot more effective high velocity rifle rounds than essentially pistol rounds
shalackin
8:43p, 09/06/12
shalackin
3706 posts, joined 03/17/2004
from what I understand, subsonic will penetrate more than supersonic. need speed to expand. so sub is actually worse in hitting things behind your target.
Log
9:41p, 09/06/12
Log
9336 posts, joined 09/09/2004
quote:
Plus, subsonic rounds have less chance of over penetrating and killing someone two houses over, like some rifle rounds might do.


If you are doing dynamic entries and CQB, you aren't going to be using FMJ ammo. You're going to be using TAP if your a LEO or Mk262 Mod 1 (or something even better) if you're HSLD. Those things grenade once they penetrate a few inches of soft tissue. I suggest anyone that keeps a loaded AR in the corner have a mag loaded with a similar round.
RBoutdoors
11:53a, 09/07/12
RBoutdoors
2218 posts, joined 04/21/2006
Yes the 30-30 is worthless when compared to other rounds when you are looking at a scoped rifle. 30-30 is a great open sight heavy woods gun.

Subsonic 308 ammo is readily available online or you can build your one with trail boss.

As to why use subsonics, think out all situations where you would like to shoot something and very little sound signature. The opportunities are endless.
phideaux_2003
12:05p, 09/07/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
quote:
source??


Let me clarify... I made that statement in comparison to supersonic ammunition. Of course depending on target type and bullet design, subsonic ammo can overpenetrate. I was suggesting that it's much easier to account for overpentration, if that is an issue for you, with subsonic ammo.
phideaux_2003
12:08p, 09/07/12
phideaux_2003
3009 posts, joined 08/02/2010
quote:
Yes the 30-30 is worthless when compared to other rounds when you are looking at a scoped rifle. 30-30 is a great open sight heavy woods gun.


And my Tundra is worthless when compared to Ferrari's, but if I'm looking for a truck, the Ferrari is worthless. Like I said, it has it's niche.
RBoutdoors
12:17p, 09/07/12
RBoutdoors
2218 posts, joined 04/21/2006
Comparing a 30-30 to a 308 is hardly a truck vs Ferrari argument.

To the OP you wanted to be talked out of the blackout, I have given you another opinion.
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