In reply to 88Warrior

88Warrior said:

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dermdoc said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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I've looked at the "evidence" being used frequently and shared. It's not science.

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Show me a definitive study that show that masks do much unless they are N95s.

You can't because you can not do the trials that are necessary due to ethics.

Do you really believe these folks walking around HEB with the blue cotton masks are doing any good?

Sometimes you have to think critically and use common sense. And not just blindly follow "science" which often is biased. Trust me, I have a lot of experience of writing and reviewing scientific articles. Amazing how stars can be used to say what you like or to support who is paying you.

And I have really tried to stop being a pompous turd, but I can still smell and spot them. Very easily.

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My whole problem with the mask mandate from the beginning….

In the occupational world OSHA says in order to prove a mask is protecting you adequately you must go through either a Quantitative or Qualitative fit test (with the actual mask you plan on wearing) It doesn't take a whole lot to fail one of these test ( ie. razor stubble, scars on the sealing surface, fat face, skinny face etc. etc.) So now the government is certain any person can put on a face covering or mask and be protected from a virus…I've been involved with these test for almost 30 years…just not buying it…

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There are pre Covid mask studies that say the same thing. And these were controlled studies in the OR.

In reply to 88Warrior

Quote:

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So now the government is certain any person can put on a face covering or mask and be protected from a virus…

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When it comes to a crisis, people look to those in charge to "do something." Masks were the best they could come up with.

Sadly they missed a rare opportunity to get Americans to lose weight. THAT would have done something.

In reply to Rongagin71

Rongagin71 said:

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dermdoc said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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What are the odds? It's certainly not low that you can avoid Covid without extensive precautions.

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Disagree. I never shut down and still saw 60 people a day all last year. And I was 65 y/o. Sometimes wore a mask. Never social distanced and went to all the Aggie away games.

Why did I not get it?

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Are you sure you did not get it? Did you get a reliable test done for antibodies?

As for that video, it is not going to change any minds because it is unrealistic...
imagine, if you can, that the same video was fixed up with a different sound track in which the suffering guy on the floor is complaining that he "just took the vaccine and must be having a reaction" and the girl comes up to him saying "Here! I've got more of the vaccine for you!". Does that kind of video change minds? NO.

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One of my attendings used to always tell me
"Never order a test unless it makes a difference in patient care".

In reply to Quad Dog Tested several times. All negative.

In reply to Quad Dog

Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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There are a lot of folks like me.

In reply to Goodbull_19

Goodbull_19 said:

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Does this really belong on the religion and philosophy forum? Unless we are getting into the philosophy of our duty (or lack thereof) to compel others' actions for the common good of society... Or the philosophy of whether one has a societal duty to protect his neighbors... I struggle to understand why this video was posted on this forum.

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This has become the safe haven of liberals.

Sad.

In reply to Quad Dog They're only well received if people are in the right estate of mind.

In reply to Sapper Redux

Sapper Redux said:

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You know as well as I do that the plural of anecdote is not data. Given the transmissibility of Delta, the odds of avoiding the virus entirely are extremely thin.

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How do you know this? What does "extremely thin" mean? Do you have data to support your assertion?

In reply to Quad Dog

Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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I do not think it is "luck". I believe it is God's favor and protection. Sure use common sense. But I am not changing my life or living in fear.

We have a sign on our office door that I will take a picture and share later.

Says COVID "Christ Over Viruses and Infectious Diseases".

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:

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Goodbull_19 said:

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Does this really belong on the religion and philosophy forum? Unless we are getting into the philosophy of our duty (or lack thereof) to compel others' actions for the common good of society... Or the philosophy of whether one has a societal duty to protect his neighbors... I struggle to understand why this video was posted on this forum.

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This has become the safe haven of liberals.

Sad.

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I sure hope so. I hope its a safe haven for conservatives too. It would be sad to me if you wished for this board not to be a place where liberals could post without being attacked.

What is sad for me is that there are probably people on this board for whom interaction here with someone of a different political or religious alignment is the extent to which they interact with people with different ideas. In other words, If I'm the closest thing you have to an atheist friend or liberal friend. . . . thats maybe not good. And if you are the closest thing I have to a Christian friend. . . . well thats not so good either.

As for this thread. . . . I've stayed out (except for a couple of quips on page 1), but have been reading along. The thread appears to be Sapper arguing one side and you arguing another side. The majority of the comments not from either of you have been in support of your position. This is hardly a 'pile on top of the conservatives and beat em up' type of thread.

Having re-read this thread, I don't see anything horribly offensive or personal. Sapper made a comment about thinking that many of the anti-vaxxers use sorta confirmation bias acceptance of science. You may disagree with that and you may think he's dead wrong. . . . but this has hardly been a hostile thread by any stretch.

And if you are opposed to this thread being here, I would ask why you were the first respondent and why you have 7 (edit: now 8) more posts in this thread than the next closest person.

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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I do not think it is "luck". I believe it is God's favor and protection. Sure use common sense. But I am not changing my life or living in fear.

We have a sign on our office door that I will take a picture and share later.

Says COVID "Christ Over Viruses and Infectious Diseases".

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Must be nice to have God's favor and protection. Guess you are doing something right that 5 million dead people worldwide aren't. That's not including the huge number of infected who faced or are still having serious symptoms. Did they all not have God's favor?

In reply to Quad Dog

Quad Dog said:

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dermdoc said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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I do not think it is "luck". I believe it is God's favor and protection. Sure use common sense. But I am not changing my life or living in fear.

We have a sign on our office door that I will take a picture and share later.

Says COVID "Christ Over Viruses and Infectious Diseases".

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Must be nice to have God's favor and protection. Guess you are doing something right that 5 million dead people worldwide aren't. That's not including the huge number of infected who faced or are still having serious symptoms. Did they all not have God's favor?

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It is wonderful and completely unearned. And even if I die, I still will have God's favor and be in the presence of the Lord.

In reply to Quad Dog

Quad Dog said:

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dermdoc said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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I do not think it is "luck". I believe it is God's favor and protection. Sure use common sense. But I am not changing my life or living in fear.

We have a sign on our office door that I will take a picture and share later.

Says COVID "Christ Over Viruses and Infectious Diseases".

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Must be nice to have God's favor and protection. Guess you are doing something right that 5 million dead people worldwide aren't. That's not including the huge number of infected who faced or are still having serious symptoms. Did they all not have God's favor?

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"If God is real then why does bad stuff happen"- Big Brain

In reply to kurt vonnegut

kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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Goodbull_19 said:

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Does this really belong on the religion and philosophy forum? Unless we are getting into the philosophy of our duty (or lack thereof) to compel others' actions for the common good of society... Or the philosophy of whether one has a societal duty to protect his neighbors... I struggle to understand why this video was posted on this forum.

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This has become the safe haven of liberals.

Sad.

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I sure hope so. I hope its a safe haven for conservatives too. It would be sad to me if you wished for this board not to be a place where liberals could post without being attacked.

What is sad for me is that there are probably people on this board for whom interaction here with someone of a different political or religious alignment is the extent to which they interact with people with different ideas. In other words, If I'm the closest thing you have to an atheist friend or liberal friend. . . . thats maybe not good. And if you are the closest thing I have to a Christian friend. . . . well thats not so good either.

As for this thread. . . . I've stayed out (except for a couple of quips on page 1), but have been reading along. The thread appears to be Sapper arguing one side and you arguing another side. The majority of the comments not from either of you have been in support of your position. This is hardly a 'pile on top of the conservatives and beat em up' type of thread.

Having re-read this thread, I don't see anything horribly offensive or personal. Sapper made a comment about thinking that many of the anti-vaxxers use sorta confirmation bias acceptance of science. You may disagree with that and you may think he's dead wrong. . . . but this has hardly been a hostile thread by any stretch.

And if you are opposed to this thread being here, I would ask why you were the first respondent and why you have 7 (edit: now 8) more posts in this thread than the next closest person.

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Guilty as charged. I did not think sapper's post was hostile, just arrogant and condescending. Probably just me.

In reply to dermdoc And is it sad that this forum is a place where liberals can post without being attacked? Just like to know where I stand with people.

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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dermdoc said:

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And imho, we should always question science. Science lovers by and large sure question my religion. And freedom.

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There's "questioning science" and then there's, "I don't like what science says, so I'm going to find any excuse I can to avoid reality." I see a lot more of the latter than the former in the anti-vaccine, anti-mask crowd.

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That is so arrogant I do not know where to begin. The amount of projection, generalization, moral superiority, etc. is off the charts. I do not presume to know how you think. Please do not assume you know how others do.

Thanks.

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He's arrogant because he believes the systems that he trusts holds truth. That's why he's constantly shouting "follow the science". He trusts that all of the data flowing through this massive network is correct and/or nobody is manipulating it enough in way to uphold a specific agenda. This is why he will be proven wrong one way or the other eventually because he is absolutely ignorant of the human condition. We have decades of manipulation through our country and global economy and yet you have people like this dude who are endlessly defending this narrative.

In reply to Sb1540

Orthodox Texan said:

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Quad Dog said:

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dermdoc said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Sorry, I assumed you didn't treat based on your previous post.
You're a lucky one then. I wouldn't advice anyone to use your experience as the norm.

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I do not think it is "luck". I believe it is God's favor and protection. Sure use common sense. But I am not changing my life or living in fear.

We have a sign on our office door that I will take a picture and share later.

Says COVID "Christ Over Viruses and Infectious Diseases".

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Must be nice to have God's favor and protection. Guess you are doing something right that 5 million dead people worldwide aren't. That's not including the huge number of infected who faced or are still having serious symptoms. Did they all not have God's favor?

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"If God is real then why does bad stuff happen"- Big Brain

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Disregard the question all you want, but the problem with 'evil' has never been considered trivial.

If you want to live by "Jesus take the wheel", then that is fine by me. But if your car crashes and kills someone else because no one's driving, then I think this 'God's favor and protection' is worth discussing. Similarly, if you oppose the vaccine and masks, then I can respect your position. But if you happen to spread the virus to people that die from it while simply relying on God's protection, then I think an intelligent discussion should be had about what responsibility, if any, we humans have toward ensuring our actions do not accidentally cause harm to others in our community.

What responsibility to your neighbor do you have to ensure you are not endangering them by your actions. Any action can be potentially dangerous. Driving to work, I am endangering others. But I can take reasonable precautions like drive safely, ignore distractions, don't drink and drive. . .

It upsets me when I see people talk about how they are young and healthy and that this justifies them not taking precautions. If I get covid, I'll be fine. I worry about my parents, my wife's parents, wife's grandparents, my coworkers. We all have people that are higher risk. Don't we give a **** about these people?

In reply to Sapper Redux

Sapper Redux said:

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dermdoc said:

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Got a friend with a 20 y/o son, incredibly healthy, who developed myocarditis after the vax. This is being shown to be a side effect in young males.

He basically went into total body failure and was intubated for several weeks. Both legs amputated, liver and kidney failure, and may need a heart transplant.

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I hope he's able to recover. That's an extremely rare response.


The odds of myocarditis from the vaccine are far lower than the odds from contracting Covid.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2784800

Compared to infection with Covid

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/08/31/covid-myocarditis-risk-children-083121

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/

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What is the risk of Covid for a 20 year old?

Answer: Nil

He didn't need the vax.

In reply to Whitetail

Whitetail said:

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What is the risk of Covid for a 20 year old?

Answer: Nil

He didn't need the vax.

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I have read plenty of articles about how receiving the vaccine makes a person less likely to transmit the virus to others. If the virus is less likely to be transmitted by vaccinated persons then the argument for the 20 year old to get the vaccine is very easy to make.

I am also not an epidemiologist, and I don't think anyone else on this board is. I am not qualified to weigh on on the accuracy of those articles. I am simply offering the obvious potential justification.

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:

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Did your studies of myocarditis factor in what a patient's chances were they would get the virus? Or just what the incidence of myocarditis in people known it have Covid? Because if not, it is worthless.

There is one hundred percent chance of getting the vaccine if you choose to get it.

There is not a 100% chance you will get Covid if you are not vaccinated.

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to address this simple data question, I had this same question when thinking through the risk/reward balance of the vaccine for my kids so here are just the numbers from my look back with no commentary:

chance of 12-17 year old boy developing myocarditis following vaccine is 6.3/100k

chance of a 12-17 being hospitalized from covid in the 12 months ending 8/7/21 was 50.3/100k (and this is total pop, not just those who got covid, the chance was 0.768% of being hospitalized once they got COVID). this number is likely higher now since my numbers were done prior to the delta spike. a rolling 12 months done now would include both the January/February spike, and the August/September spike.



as far as the types of discussions belonging on this forum, in my experience, I have found this forum to be the most likely place to have challenging yet generally respectful discussions on issues where there is real disagreement over an issue. Now sure that is not always the case, it is still an internet message board after all, but i have found it to at least be true relative to the rest of the boards on TexAgs.

In reply to kurt vonnegut

kurt vonnegut said:

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Whitetail said:

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What is the risk of Covid for a 20 year old?

Answer: Nil

He didn't need the vax.

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I have read plenty of articles about how receiving the vaccine makes a person less likely to transmit the virus to others. If the virus is less likely to be transmitted by vaccinated persons then the argument for the 20 year old to get the vaccine is very easy to make.

I am also not an epidemiologist, and I don't think anyone else on this board is. I am not qualified to weigh on on the accuracy of those articles. I am simply offering the obvious potential justification.

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I have also read that the vax protects people if they are at risk of the virus. The actions of a 20 year old should not impact others if they are protected by the vax. The unvaxxed at risk have made their choice.