All I know is since our church left the UMC two years ago we started growing in members and in energy & joy!

In reply to Windy City Ag

Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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Unfortunately UMC is taking a lot of assets with them.

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At least in Dallas, many of the wealthiest and most financially sustainable Methodist churches are sticking with the UMC.

Highland Park United Methodist is probably the most prosperous, followed by Lovers Lane. They have been pushed by the UMC North Texas conference over the years to absorb or prop up smaller failing churches. St.Andrews in Plano did bolt.

White's Chapel out in Southlake has already bolted but for whatever reason avoid the GMC as well, trying its own separate approach. It is a mega-church so they can definitely get away with it. They style themselves as centrist.

I am not sure how Houston went. Maybe different there. I knew the Woodlands UMC was also pretty much a mega-church and disaffilaited.

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I know Kingwood UMC went GMC.

In reply to AgLiving06 That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

Kingwood is also home to a very good and stable ECO Presbyterian Church.

In reply to The Chicken Ranch

The Chicken Ranch said:

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That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

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And before that, PCPC broke off from HPPC because PCUSA wasn't conservative enough and HPPC didn't want to split at the time..

In reply to powerbelly I'm not familiar with PCPC. I'm not from North Texas, so you'll have to spell it out.

Are they EPC or PCA? At some point the ECO and EPC will likely merge. We are already in covenant with each other.

The PCUSA was never conservative, but it had conservative churches. They became openly hostile to conservative churches, just like the UMC did. Hence the split. The UMC-GMC split is just 15 years behind the Presbyterians.

In reply to The Chicken Ranch

The Chicken Ranch said:

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I'm not familiar with PCPC. I'm not from North Texas, so you'll have to spell it out.

Are they EPC or PCA? At some point the ECO and EPC will likely merge. We are already in covenant with each other.

The PCUSA was never conservative, but it had conservative churches. They became openly hostile to conservative churches, just like the UMC did. Hence the split. The UMC-GMC split is just 15 years behind the Presbyterians.

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Park Cities Presbyterian (PCPC) split from HPPC and went to PCA in the early-90s. While HPPC was one of the biggest conservative churches within PCUSA, many saw the writing on the wall.

In reply to The Chicken Ranch

The Chicken Ranch said:

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That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

Kingwood is also home to a very good and stable ECO Presbyterian Church.

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as did First Presbyterian Houston. Had to sue PCUSA in court to take all the property.

In reply to Windy City Ag

Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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Unfortunately UMC is taking a lot of assets with them.

---

At least in Dallas, many of the wealthiest and most financially sustainable Methodist churches are sticking with the UMC.

Highland Park United Methodist is probably the most prosperous, followed by Lovers Lane. They have been pushed by the UMC North Texas conference over the years to absorb or prop up smaller failing churches. St.Andrews in Plano did bolt.

White's Chapel out in Southlake has already bolted but for whatever reason avoid the GMC as well, trying its own separate approach. It is a mega-church so they can definitely get away with it. They style themselves as centrist.

I am not sure how Houston went. Maybe different there. I knew the Woodlands UMC was also pretty much a mega-church and disaffilaited.

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St Luke's Houston stayed - it's now a liberal mess of a church. Sad because not 20 years ago it was a mainline tall steeple conservative congregation.

In reply to The Chicken Ranch

The Chicken Ranch said:

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That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

Kingwood is also home to a very good and stable ECO Presbyterian Church.

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I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go independent. They are or were pretty big in size back in the day when I went.

But maybe they went GMC just to keep more unity with others.

In reply to AgLiving06

AgLiving06 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

Kingwood is also home to a very good and stable ECO Presbyterian Church.

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I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go independent. They are or were pretty big in size back in the day when I went.

But maybe they went GMC just to keep more unity with others.

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Why would a Presbyterian Church go Indy when the ECO is perfectly fine?

In reply to MAROON

MAROON said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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That's interesting because Highland Park Presbyterian was an early mover to the ECO. They are probably the wealthiest Presbyterian Church in Texas.

Kingwood is also home to a very good and stable ECO Presbyterian Church.

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as did First Presbyterian Houston. Had to sue PCUSA in court to take all the property.

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Actually, FPC Houston sued to get the state to rule on the trust clause and clarify the property ownership. Once the court ruled in their favor, they left.

It is known as the nuclear option. The courts have ruled that the local congregations really own their property in Texas, not the parent denomination. So a church (UMC/PCUSA/ELCA) can legally leave their denomination and take their property without paying a dime, if they so choose. It's really just that simple. Change your affiliation in your by-laws and send them a "Dear John…"

In reply to MAROON

MAROON said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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Unfortunately UMC is taking a lot of assets with them.

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At least in Dallas, many of the wealthiest and most financially sustainable Methodist churches are sticking with the UMC.

Highland Park United Methodist is probably the most prosperous, followed by Lovers Lane. They have been pushed by the UMC North Texas conference over the years to absorb or prop up smaller failing churches. St.Andrews in Plano did bolt.

White's Chapel out in Southlake has already bolted but for whatever reason avoid the GMC as well, trying its own separate approach. It is a mega-church so they can definitely get away with it. They style themselves as centrist.

I am not sure how Houston went. Maybe different there. I knew the Woodlands UMC was also pretty much a mega-church and disaffilaited.

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St Luke's Houston stayed - it's now a liberal mess of a church. Sad because not 20 years ago it was a mainline tall steeple conservative congregation.

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A lot of the actual believers at St. Luke's are at The Story. Their pastor Eric Huffman is awesome. And that church is thriving. We are thinking about joining. Our current church lost its youth pastor and that's a must for us.

Here is Huffman's story, and it is powerful. He is the son of a Methodist minister who basically became an atheist secularized radical progressive. Then had a major change of heart when he went to the Holy Lands 10+ years ago. I have visited his church and his theology is very bible based.

the-reconversion-of-a-secularized-radical

In reply to Carmine Scarpacio yes - they're no longer at St Luke's which basically evicted The Story from their property. The Story was essentially St Luke's contemporary service at one-time.

In reply to MAROON

MAROON said:

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yes - they're no longer at St Luke's which basically evicted The Story from their property. The Story was essentially St Luke's contemporary service at one-time.

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Yep. They are thriving. They bought Bethany Church next to Lamar High School. They will outgrow St Luke's in no time.

A lot of heavy, heavy hitters (financially) -- old school multi-generation River Oaks families -- have moved from St. John's and St. Luke's to The Story.

In reply to Carmine Scarpacio yes - I have two friends deeply involved there. St John's is another one that has gone by the wayside. Some great folks there, but it's becoming more and more liberal.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6gewzAtqAw/?igsh=cTNhY2NkcnVydXQ4

I'd say peak idiocy, but I don't think we're there quite yet

In reply to TresPuertas

TresPuertas said:

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https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6gewzAtqAw/?igsh=cTNhY2NkcnVydXQ4

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They fall all over themselves and still can't get it right.