In reply to Ag with kids You don't think regulators are capable of ideological capture? You're nuts. Explain why the woman that was the acting head of NHTSA during this Autopilot investigation was denied approval based upon her ideological leanings?

Explain to me why Starlink was denied funding by the FCC if you don't think regulators are capable of acting ideologically. People are people and they will behave as people do.

Do I think NHTSA is falsifying data? No, but I think they're applying disproportionate attention to Tesla's system because Musk is who Musk is and the system is named Autopilot rather than Drive Pilot or Blue Cruise or Super Cruise or some other name brand. Considering the IIHS just released a report that of the 14 driver assistance systems they tested, 13 failed to adequately ensure driver attention (what Tesla is being investigated for) it's not that wild to say it's somewhat agenda driven. That agenda is compounded by the fact the media is likewise ideologically driven and incentivized by advertising dollars.

In reply to hph6203

hph6203 said:

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You don't think regulators are capable of ideological capture? You're nuts. Explain why the woman that was the acting head of NHTSA during this Autopilot investigation was denied approval based upon her ideological leanings?

Explain to me why Starlink was denied funding by the FCC if you don't think regulators are capable of acting ideologically. People are people and they will behave as people do.

Do I think NHTSA is falsifying data? No, but I think they're applying disproportionate attention to Tesla's system because Musk is who Musk is and the system is named Autopilot rather than Drive Pilot or Blue Cruise or Super Cruise or some other name brand. Considering the IIHS just released a report that of the 14 driver assistance systems they tested, 13 failed to adequately ensure driver attention (what Tesla is being investigated for) it's not that wild to say it's somewhat agenda driven. That agenda is compounded by the fact the media is likewise ideologically driven and incentivized by advertising dollars.

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Regulators? Maybe.

The engineers and all the others doing the assessment? No...

But, keep on not pimping Tesla, just EVs...

In reply to Ag with kids

Ag with kids said:

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Regulators? Maybe.

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MOUNT UP!

In reply to Ag with kids

Ag with kids said:

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Regulators? Maybe.

The engineers and all the others doing the assessment? No...

But, keep on not pimping Tesla, just EVs...

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Feel free to point to where I said this.

Read the last paragraph in the post you quoted and see if it's in direct contradiction to what you claim I said.

You have a bad habit of creating arguments/statements that were never actually said, because you operate under the assumption that everyone you interact with is stupid, not dumber than you, stupid, and then when presented with irrefutable proof that you're wrong or didn't actually absorb the argument as stated you fall back on some nonsense like requesting that people update their sarcasmeter as if it's convincing dodge of the fact you didn't actually comprehend what you were arguing against. Not due to a lack of capacity of comprehension, but because you default to the assumption that they're stupid and don't engage with what they're actually saying.

In reply to Ag with kids Your just nitpicking at words now. You get my point, just like with the Blackberry. Once people realize how much better product it is, only the small fraction of people will buy an ICE.



Here is a video of a well respected car guy who reviewed the recent Model 3 performance. He essentially said this makes the BMW M3 irrelevant.

In reply to hph6203 Yeah, he/she is good at losing on facts and start to nitpick word usage or pivoting to other strawman arguments.

In reply to techno-ag Not withstanding the facts that this guy is a Tesla Hitman, these videos were done when FSD was not a very good product. I have been through FSD for the past 3 yrs and the earlier non AI version would run things over. BUT, the current "AI" version is better. Not there yet, but I think its inevitable.

In reply to hph6203

hph6203 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Regulators? Maybe.

The engineers and all the others doing the assessment? No...

But, keep on not pimping Tesla, just EVs...

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Feel free to point to where I said this.

Read the last paragraph in the post you quoted and see if it's in direct contradiction to what you claim I said.

You have a bad habit of creating arguments/statements that were never actually said, because you operate under the assumption that everyone you interact with is stupid, not dumber than you, stupid, and then when presented with irrefutable proof that you're wrong or didn't actually absorb the argument as stated you fall back on some nonsense like requesting that people update their sarcasmeter as if it's convincing dodge of the fact you didn't actually comprehend what you were arguing against. Not due to a lack of capacity of comprehension, but because you default to the assumption that they're stupid and don't engage with what they're actually saying.

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Quote:

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Do I think NHTSA is falsifying data? No, but I think they're applying disproportionate attention to Tesla's system because Musk is who Musk is and the system is named Autopilot rather than Drive Pilot or Blue Cruise or Super Cruise or some other name brand.

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The people who put those reports together are the engineers and all the others doing the assessments.

I'm sure you'll now deflect and say that's not what you meant, but whatever...

Quote:

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You have a bad habit of creating arguments/statements that were never actually said, because you operate under the assumption that everyone you interact with is stupid, not dumber than you, stupid

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BTW...talk about an ad hom and a strawman getting together and having a baby. That's not just false, that's a lie. So...carry on...

In reply to Medaggie

Medaggie said:

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Yeah, he/she is good at losing on facts and start to nitpick word usage or pivoting to other strawman arguments.

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You're incorrect. And if you state something wrong as if it's fact, it's NOT nit-picking. Words have meanings.

Wanted a Tesla, have tons of stock, but wasn't luxury enough yet. Tech on Tesla and the future of driving is with Tesla, but didn't go that way this time.

If they will sell me the Cybertruck I'll buy it.

We still have the wife's Yukon and my oldest son's truck in the driveway (and I will probably buy a jeep for my daughter in the next year), but I have had my Rivian truck for about a month now and I don't miss the f150 or gas stations. Only about 1k miles so far, so a lot could still bite me later, but I knew the risk I was taking when I treated myself to something fun.

I haven't done the math as far as the efficiency of miles per kwh I get in the Rivian at my current power to choose fixed rate vs mpg of the f150 at current regular unleaded prices around here. I don't really care that much. I also get to charge for free for a couple of hours at the building next door to my office whenever I want so I technically don't ever even have to plug in at home right now. No oil changes and probably no brake pad replacement with the regen braking, but possibly more tire replacements with the added weight. No idea about battery degradation, but the Rivian has like a 8 year / 150k mile warranty on the battery- doubt I'll have it that long. Resale a few years from now? I don't care.

Furthest I've driven so far has been to Houston and back several times and college station & back once (from the woodlands), so haven't had to plan to navigate to public chargers or worry about apps or subscriptions, or lines/wait times, or out of order equipment, etc yet. We don't take really long road trips; we fly, but if we did, we'd probably take the Yukon Denali anyway.

Obviously these EVs aren't for everyone, but my commute to the airport on Mondays is short and when I'm not traveling, my commute to my office is much shorter. The Rivian will make it to the ranch or college station or Houston and back without worrying about public charging.

V2H charging is supposedly eventually coming to my Rivian in a future update so it might even come in handy for power outages in lieu of a generator depending on length of outage and power needs.

The vehicle itself- it's quiet and fast asF. Just fun and I still have the utility of the truck bed when I need it.

I won't get a tax rebate because the Rivian costs too much, and I'm against the government manipulating the market with the rebates anyway. People will buy EVs when it makes sense for them. OEMs need to get the costs down, public charging infrastructure needs to keep improving, and technological advances with storage needs to keep improving for many peoples' use cases. Heck, in places like California, people's electricity costs vs regular unleaded gasoline doesn't even make it economical right now.

But the Rivian is fun.


Hertz really messed up. A Tesla as a rental should be great- in theory- but only if your trip duration and distance from airport, hotel, work place / meetings are short and you won't be driving much more than 300 miles. And then hertz can charge them at their facility when returned. Renters expecting to drive much more than that on their trips should never opt for a Tesla as they'd have to find public charging at some point. But flying into a city, driving around town for 2-3 days then returning, should be no problem. Maybe Hertz didn't explain that or warn renters well enough about that. Hertz also had to know that people would either be hesitant to take it if they've never driven one, or abuse them like they do other rental cars- abuse had to be built into their model.

In reply to oh no You used the word "fun" several times. And that's the sentiment I try to relay to people. It's not about being green or any of that nonsense. Teslas and Rivians and other EV's like them are just fun cars to drive and make commuting less of a beating. And there's value in that.

In reply to Teslag

Teslag said:

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You used the word "fun" several times. And that's the sentiment I try to relay to people. It's not about being green or any of that nonsense. Teslas and Rivians and other EV's like them are just fun cars to drive and make commuting less of a beating. And there's value in that.

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Fun is why I like my stick shifts...

And I know why lots of people don't like them.

Yeah we know why you like your stick shifts

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

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Yeah we know why you like your stick shifts

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Dammit...I've been figured out.

BMW makes some impressive vehicles but it's like they're trying be the ugliest on the market

Twin turbo V8 and an electric motor should make it extremely easy to merge on the highway. Glad German manufacturers still have color options beyond earth tones, black, and white for their high end vehicles.

In reply to GAC06

GAC06 said:

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BMW makes some impressive vehicles but it's like they're trying be the ugliest on the market

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XM is nicer than you think, it might be $20K overpriced but not ugly and fun to drive. Get a used one and you can knock off the first year or two depreciation.

In reply to Premium Impressive ride, I just absolutely hate the styling BMW has gone with

In reply to Teslag

Teslag said:

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You used the word "fun" several times. And that's the sentiment I try to relay to people. It's not about being green or any of that nonsense. Teslas and Rivians and other EV's like them are just fun cars to drive and make commuting less of a beating. And there's value in that.

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Golf is fun.

In reply to techno-ag

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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You used the word "fun" several times. And that's the sentiment I try to relay to people. It's not about being green or any of that nonsense. Teslas and Rivians and other EV's like them are just fun cars to drive and make commuting less of a beating. And there's value in that.

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Golf is fun.

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I store my golf clubs in the gear tunnel of my Rivian.

In reply to techno-ag

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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You used the word "fun" several times. And that's the sentiment I try to relay to people. It's not about being green or any of that nonsense. Teslas and Rivians and other EV's like them are just fun cars to drive and make commuting less of a beating. And there's value in that.

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Golf is fun.

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Almost half of all golf carts are ICE. Enjoy your golf cart.

In reply to oh no It just fascinates me why some love to do weekly gas station visits, have 10 yr old tech in their car, not able to start their car anywhere in the world, not able to leave their dog or food in the texas heat for hours, get 3-4 oil changes a year, get brakes done, have brake dust everywhere, have a hot garage, have a golf cart smoke them.

My neighbor is sure glad I got a Tesla. Driving home one day, some dumb kid tried to speed out from a turn, lost control, and took out her sprinklers. I was happening to drive by and sent her clips from 4 diff cameras of the car, the kids face, and the license plate.

In reply to Medaggie Sweet. A Karenmobile.

In reply to GAC06

GAC06 said:

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BMW makes some impressive vehicles but it's like they're trying be the ugliest on the market

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BMW's current design refresh is just awful. No idea how they could screw it up so bad. I'll likely go in a different direction when I replace mine.

Tesla stock surges on full self driving approval in China.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-surges-on-watershed-full-self-driving-approval-in-china-171449770.html

Devastating.

In reply to Teslag

Teslag said:

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Tesla stock surges on full self driving approval in China.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-surges-on-watershed-full-self-driving-approval-in-china-171449770.html

Devastating.

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Congrats! You finally found a positive news story on Tesla in all your searching.

Meanwhile…

https://insideevs.com/news/718025/tesla-charging-layoffs-2024/amp/

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Tesla Axing Its Supercharger Team Puts The Entire Industry In The Dark

Most of Tesla's Supercharger team was caught up in recent layoffs, leading to countless questions about the future of EV charging.

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In reply to techno-ag As said on the other thread. Mostly executives and fat. There are still 1500 supercharger production employees in New York cranking out superchargers.

Opens up charging network and charging standards to other manufacturers, terminates the director and office staff for the charging network…so who is buying the network? mostly joking

Or the other side, what concessions were made to get FSD approval in China?

Tesla still plans to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 30, 2024

Cost cutting mode. Front running what appears to be an industry wide downturn regardless of mode of propulsion. VW revenues down, Ford revenues down, Mercedes revenues down, Stellantis revenue down. Price cuts likely coming across the industry for "mid-tier" priced vehicles as the <$40,000 market hasn't been hit as hard.

In reply to tk for tu juan

tk for tu juan said:

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Opens up charging network and charging standards to other manufacturers, terminates the director and office staff for the charging network…so who is buying the network? mostly joking

Or the other side, what concessions were made to get FSD approval in China?

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All references to Tiananmen Square are banned from Twitter?

In reply to hph6203

hph6203 said:

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Tesla still plans to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 30, 2024

Cost cutting mode. Front running what appears to be an industry wide downturn regardless of mode of propulsion. VW revenues down, Ford revenues down, Mercedes revenues down, Stellantis revenue down. Price cuts likely coming across the industry for "mid-tier" priced vehicles as the <$40,000 market hasn't been hit as hard.

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Tesla revenues are down too, 9% for the quarter, the worst year over year decline since 2012.

In reply to techno-ag What do industry wide downturn regardless of mode of propulsion mean?

The fact that Ford's combustion business, Stellantis', VW's and Mercedes' are all down has not been discussed on this thread. Tesla's has.

It's pretty simple and they love to distract with how the PRC is encroaching on Taiwan and are building man made islands in the SCS we it's not even close to the real threat. The greener we get, the more dependent we are on China, and they're taking full advantage of it. They don't want to go to war with anyone, they're just going to own our economy. In direction we're heading we won't be able to do anything without China. The Chinese always play the long game and they always allow for self inflicted damage to their opponents to be at a premium. We are letting a handful of elites sell the country to the Chinese a little bit at a time. For all his faults there is one thing that's an indisputable fact there are many videos of Trump warning us about this from the 80's and everyone said he was being an alarmist blow hard. Who's laughing now?

In reply to Foreverconservative

Quote:

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The greener we get, the more dependent we are on China, and they're taking full advantage of it.

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This! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese aren't bribing the crap out of anybody that's in a position to make laws/policy to further the move away from carbon fueled energy.