Quote:
After the potential jurors finished reading their questionnaires, lawyers will now speak to them for about 30 minutes each.
10:39a, 4/16/24
10:50a, 4/16/24
Checking in.
I'm in the jury pool.
Will report back.
I'm in the jury pool.
Will report back.
https://tips.fbi.gov/
1-800-225-5324
1-800-225-5324
10:51a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass is addressing the prospective jurors for the prosecution.
Steinglass began by telling the prospective jurors that they want them to be honest, and that they're looking for jurors who can be fair to both the prosecution and the defense.Quote:
"We need jurors who can set aside any strong feelings they can have one way or the other and focus on the evidence," he said. "This case has nothing to do with your personal politics.
Quote:
Prosecutor Josh Steinglass said "this defendant is just like any other defendant in any other criminal case."
"There's no special formula that applies to him simply because of who he is," Steinglass continued.
"Does anyone feel they're able to question the law as the judge gives it simply because the defendant is Donald Trump?" he asked the jury pool.
Quote:
Prosecutor Josh Steinglass is calling on prospective jurors now to ask their feelings about being on the jury.
"I think that the job of the jury, like the judge said yesterday, is to understand what's the facts are. I don't think it matters what my political beliefs are," said one woman in the jury pool.
Steinglass asked another woman who said yesterday she had views on campaign finance limits. The potential juror said she didn't think those views about the need for candidates to raise money would affect her views on this case.
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass notes all of the media attention on the case, but says they haven't yet seen the evidence in this case.
"It seems that everyone and their mother has an opinion about this case, and what the right outcome may be, however uninformed that opinion may be," he says, noting that "unlike the masses," the jurors on this case will have access to all of the evidence and the judge's instructions on the law.
11:02a, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
If the judge's instructions to the jury are simply to determine the thruthfulness of facts, the fact that Cohen sent Trump an invoice will not be in dispute. Do I understand it correctly that the jury will have no authority to "connect the dots" as to criminality of the actions? In other words, they cannot come to a conclusion that, "yeah, he did that, but it's not criminal", unless given the authority by the judge to do so in his instructios.
What are the chances that the judge's instructions will go something like: "You have been presented with alleged facts and your job is to determine the truthfulness of those allegations. And, if you determine these allegations did in fact take place, you are to come to a guilty verdict."
Items like this beg the question of whether anyone on the jury can really stop any of this.aggiehawg said:You know why. The judge has an agenda and it is not following the law. Case should have never survived a motion to dismiss from the get go. Time barred for misdemeanor charges and th predicate crime supporting the upgrade to felony is vague, ambiguous and not an actual crime.Reality Check said:
Tell me if I'm wrong but did I just hear Alvin Bragg STILL hasn't said what the second crime is? The crime that Trump allegedly falsified documents "in furtherance of"?
Why hasn't the judge demanded that happen as a precursor to this going to trial?
Trump is being prosecuted on one of the 34 counts for Cohen creating an invoice and sending it to Trump. Like Trump controls Cohen's billings? Ludicrous.
If the judge's instructions to the jury are simply to determine the thruthfulness of facts, the fact that Cohen sent Trump an invoice will not be in dispute. Do I understand it correctly that the jury will have no authority to "connect the dots" as to criminality of the actions? In other words, they cannot come to a conclusion that, "yeah, he did that, but it's not criminal", unless given the authority by the judge to do so in his instructios.
What are the chances that the judge's instructions will go something like: "You have been presented with alleged facts and your job is to determine the truthfulness of those allegations. And, if you determine these allegations did in fact take place, you are to come to a guilty verdict."
11:04a, 4/16/24
Prosecution already muddying the timeline.Quote:
Former President Donald Trump shook his head in court as prosecutor Joshua Steinglass said that the alleged crimes in the hush money case took place in 2017 and the conduct goes back to 2015.
This is rich, considering Cohen is their star witness.
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass is questioning the jury pool, but he's also signaling how they'll appeal to the jury at trial, noting that not all witnesses will remember events in the past the same and that witnesses might remember small details differently.
Steinglass also noted that jurors will not learn why these charge are going to trial now and that jurors are not allowed to speculate.
"Can you be realistic and not hold witnesses to unrealistic standards?" he asks the jury pool, telling any to say if they can't accept that.
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass noted some witnesses who will testify in the trial "have some edge," describing them a tabloid publisher, an adult film star and former lawyer Michael Cohen.
He noted that Cohen was convicted of federal crimes, including lying to Congress.
Steinglass also said that some witnesses have written books, made podcasts and participated in documentaries.
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass said while jurors can consider a witness' background in assessing their credibility, it's not the only thing they should consider.
"The question really is, as I keep saying, can you wait until you hear not only the witness testimony but the rest of the evidence of the case?" he asks.
No one in the jury pool says that's an issue.
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass noted that jurors may not like all witnesses in the case.
"Can you all separate believability from likability?" he asks the jurors.
11:08a, 4/16/24
In reply to jrdaustin
Andy McCarthy opined on that this morning. There could be value to Trump in having the lesser includeds contained in the jury instructions. In this case that would be the misdemeanor charges for the jury to reach a compromise verdict by finding him guilty of the misdemeanors without the jury knowing those will be overturned because they are time barred.Quote:
If the judge's instructions to the jury are simply to determine the thruthfulness of facts, the fact that Cohen sent Trump an invoice will not be in dispute. Do I understand it correctly that the jury will have no authority to "connect the dots" as to criminality of the actions? In other words, they cannot come to a conclusion that, "yeah, he did that, but it's not criminal", unless given the authority by the judge to do so in his instructios.
What are the chances that the judge's instructions will go something like: "You have been presented with alleged facts and your job is to determine the truthfulness of those allegations. And, if you determine these allegations did in fact take place, you are to come to a guilty verdict."
11:09a, 4/16/24
In reply to Old McDonald
at least he didn't drive off a bridge and leave her in the car to drown. That would be much worse.Old McDonald said:
one thing we can all agree on: trump cheated on his pregnant wife with a p*** star
11:11a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Jurors will be asked "to determine the defendant's intent," prosecutor Joshus Steinglass says.
"You're going to need to decide what Mr. Trump's intent was" in making or causing the false business entries, Steinglass says, adding that while juries can't get into a defendant's head, they are able to determine intent in other ways using clues.
Juries do that all the time, he says.
One male juror says in response to Steinglass' questions: "No, I don't think I need to read someone's mind to determine their intent."
Quote:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass asks each of the potential jurors to think about if they would be able to look defendant Donald Trump in the eye and return a guilty verdict if the case is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
He asked each juror to "take a moment to look at the defendant and look inside yourself" to ensure they can do that.
Quote:
Judge Juan Merchan says there will be a 10-minute recess.
Potential jurors are exiting for a break.
11:12a, 4/16/24
In reply to Retired FBI Agent
You serious Clark?Retired FBI Agent said:
Checking in.
I'm in the jury pool.
Will report back.
11:14a, 4/16/24
In reply to jrdaustin
are you aware of any time that Jurors define what is the law?
they are there to determine the facts
"The judge determines the law to be applied in the case while the jury decides the facts."
(United States Federal Courts Jury Instructions)
they are there to determine the facts
"The judge determines the law to be applied in the case while the jury decides the facts."
(United States Federal Courts Jury Instructions)
11:19a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Donald Trump's lawyers told the court that former president changed his mind about wanting to be at sidebars.
He signed a form waiving his right to do so and confirmed that audibly to Judge Juan Merchan answering, "yes."
Quote:
Trump gave a thumbs up as he entered the courtroom following a short break.
Quote:
Judge Juan Merchan is on the bench and the potential jurors are returning.
11:21a, 4/16/24
Seriously the Democrats are so stupid. I was close to a never Trumper at one point. Voted GOP in every presidential election since 1980 (except 2016 - libertarian) and still wish GOP would have picked anyone but Trump to run. This contrived manner of turning misdemeanors beyond Statute of Limitations into felonies is just seriously beyond belief. The political attack using the court is just so obvious. At least those around the Jan 6 incident or attempted vote tampering in Ga I see logic (even if think overblown).
All this trial does is increase chance Trump is reelected.
All this trial does is increase chance Trump is reelected.
11:23a, 4/16/24
Nut cutting time.Quote:
Trump attorney Todd Blanche is now addressing the potential jurors.
Blanche said he wants to talk about people's opinions of Trump. "You're not going to offend me or the court or even President Trump," Blanche said .
11:26a, 4/16/24
In reply to LMCane
Thanks.
Do me a favor. Until you respond to the direct question I posed to you earlier in the thread, don't waste your time responding to anything else I write.LMCane said:
are you aware of any time that Jurors define what is the law?
they are there to determine the facts
"The judge determines the law to be applied in the case while the jury decides the facts."
(United States Federal Courts Jury Instructions)
Thanks.
11:28a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Former President Donald Trump's attorney Todd Blanche says he's going to test whether jurors can be fair and impartial, because this isn't like any other case.
"This is extraordinarily serious, and it's extraordinarily important to President Trump that we know we're going to get a fair shake," Blanche says.
Sounds to me like someone has been coached.Quote:
Donald Trump's attorney began questioning the potential jurors by asking a woman about her opinion of the former president.
"I don't really have one, especially in this courtroom," she responds. "I think he will be treated as anybody else, and no one is above the law. So I'm here just to hear the facts on both sides."
11:32a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Another potential juror says that her social media is about former President Donald Trump, while noting that she's a woman and there have been opinions that he "doesn't treat females correctly."
Asked for more details about that, the juror says: "Honestly, I don't really know the stories."
Quote:
The prospective juror who works for the Bronx district attorney says he knows that the Manhattan district attorney will have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. He notes he has "a lot of friends in law enforcement who are pro-Trump," but says that he doesn't have an opinion about national politics.
Someone's socal media is about to be put under a microscope.Quote:
Trump Attorney Todd Blanche tried to elicit one potential juror's views about Donald Trump, but the man responded: "My view doesn't matter."
"If we were sitting in a bar, I'd be happy to tell you," the potential juror said. "But in this room, what I feel about President Trump is not important or imperative."
ETA: That exchange continued.
Quote:
Trump Attorney Todd Blanche tried to elicit one potential juror's views about Donald Trump, but the man responded: "My view doesn't matter."
"If we were sitting in a bar, I'd be happy to tell you," the potential juror said. "But in this room, what I feel about President Trump is not important or imperative."
Blanche asked for a little more from the juror. He said his political views are like comparing "apples and oranges" while inside the courtroom, but he also volunteered: "I'll say I'm a Democrat, so there you go."
Blanche said that his side just wants to make sure Trump gets a fair shake, and the man said he is sure he can do that.
11:33a, 4/16/24
In reply to jrdaustin
Not quite. The jury has authority to not connect the dots if they choose!
I'm Gipper
Quote:
Do I understand it correctly that the jury will have no authority to "connect the dots" as to criminality of the actions? In other words, they cannot come to a conclusion that, "yeah, he did that, but it's not criminal", unless given the authority by the judge to do so in his instructios.
Not quite. The jury has authority to not connect the dots if they choose!
I'm Gipper
11:34a, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
Every voir dire I've ever been a part of had the judge give similar instructions beforehand when explaining voir dire. She may have just parroted the judge.aggiehawg said:Quote:
Former President Donald Trump's attorney Todd Blanche says he's going to test whether jurors can be fair and impartial, because this isn't like any other case.
"This is extraordinarily serious, and it's extraordinarily important to President Trump that we know we're going to get a fair shake," Blanche says.Sounds to me like someone has been coached.Quote:
Donald Trump's attorney began questioning the potential jurors by asking a woman about her opinion of the former president.
"I don't really have one, especially in this courtroom," she responds. "I think he will be treated as anybody else, and no one is above the law. So I'm here just to hear the facts on both sides."
11:37a, 4/16/24
In reply to GeorgiAg
The question is the presumption of innocence. Can they follow the law on that and presume as Trump sits there today that he is innocent of these charges.
But that is asking the wrong question, at least right now it is. He may get back to it.Quote:
Every voir dire I've ever been a part of had the judge give similar instructions beforehand when explaining voir dire. She may have just parroted the judge.
The question is the presumption of innocence. Can they follow the law on that and presume as Trump sits there today that he is innocent of these charges.
11:39a, 4/16/24
Quote:
Another potential juror who was an attorney says that he follows former President Donald Trump "like anyone else," while noting that he "was a big fan of 'The Apprentice.'" When Trump became president, the juror said there were some policies he agreed with and others he disagreed with.
Quote:
A woman in the jury pool says she "disagreed with several policies" of former President Donald Trump, while noting that her social media contains "a diverse collection of friends and family, and they all post things in favor of or opposed to previous presidential policies."
11:42a, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
aggiehawg said:Quote:
but he also volunteered: "I'll say I'm a Democrat, so there you go."
Blanche said that his side just wants to make sure Trump gets a fair shake, and the man said he is sure he can do that.
11:46a, 4/16/24
Quote:
A potential juror from Mexico who became a US citizen the first year Donald Trump was president said his views about Trump are "truly inconsequential to this trial."
"Feelings are not facts," the man said, drawing a laugh from Trump attorney Todd Blanche.
Trump's attorney asked whether becoming a citizen while Trump was president would affect him at all in this trial, and he said it would not.
Quote:
Another potential juror says he finds former President Donald Trump "fascinating," with his voice rising in a crescendo.
"He walks into a room and he sets people off one way or the other, and I find that really interesting. Really, this one guy can do this?" the juror says.
Trump attorney Todd Blanche seems amused by the response.
a/k/a presumption of innocence.Quote:
Defense attorney Todd Blanche connected his questioning of each prospective juror about their views on Donald Trump, noting the jury will see tweets from the former president that they may remember back from when he was first campaigning for president in 2016.
He told the jury pool they are "trying to make sure that President Trump is starting out at square zero with you, literally square zero."
11:48a, 4/16/24
Nice circle back.Quote:
Donald Trump's attorney Todd Blanche noted that it's hard to read the New York Times or watch CNN media outlets many prospective jurors said they consume without hearing about Trump's other cases.
He asked whether the jurors have heard about the other charges and if they have an opinion on them.
11:49a, 4/16/24
In a bombshell in a separate case, Judge Merchan has ruled that Randolph Duke is allowed to be a juror on a case involving a big money Aggie as a defendant because Randolph Duke pinky promised that he could set aside his feelings for A&M and be a fair juror
11:53a, 4/16/24
Quote:
One potential juror said she has lived in New York for 50 years and acknowledged that Donald Trump has been a notable figure in real estate.
"There is very little we probably agree on policy-wise," the juror said. "Sometimes I get frustrated with it like anybody does. I have family members that support him. We manage to have decent conversations about that."
She said that she hasn't been following this case closely.
She also said she sympathized with Trump attorney Todd Blanche and how he is trying to get his client a fair shake. "I understand your dilemma. I truly do," she said.
Quote:
Trump attorney Todd Blanche has finished questioning this batch of potential jurors.
Now, the jury pool is exiting the courtroom while both parties consider which prospective jurors they want to strike.
11:57a, 4/16/24
They haven't broken for lunch yet.Quote:
Former President Donald Trump has exited the courtroom.
11:58a, 4/16/24
could any lawyers on here explain how someone could get charged with covering up a crime that he was never charged with?
It seems a cover-up charge has to be a lesser included offense but Bragg is trying to charge him with a lesser included offense that's not "included" in anything.
It seems a cover-up charge has to be a lesser included offense but Bragg is trying to charge him with a lesser included offense that's not "included" in anything.
12:05p, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
Wait…they can accommodate a potential juror being in another court but not President Trump attending his son's graduation? When the juror needs to be there everyday and Trump is required to attend but his presence doesn't actually matter?
aggiehawg said:Merchan can be accommodating when he wants to be. IDK what is across the street? Traffic court?Quote:
A prospective juror reading her questionnaire said she lives on the Upper West Side and has worked for a senior living company for about 16 or 17 years, according to pool reports. She finished high school, has attended some college, was never married and has three children. One of her children is an adult postal worker. She said she likes to spend time with her two granddaughters.
She said she had a court date April 30 "across the street," according to the pool.
Judge Juan Merchan inquired briefly about the schedule of that and said, "We can work around that."
Wait…they can accommodate a potential juror being in another court but not President Trump attending his son's graduation? When the juror needs to be there everyday and Trump is required to attend but his presence doesn't actually matter?
12:06p, 4/16/24
Quote:
Susan Necheles, part of Donald Trump's legal team, said they need more time to go over the juror strikes with the former president.
She wanted to wait until after lunch to strike the jurors, saying by the time they get to their room across the hall, it will be lunchtime. Judge Juan Merchan reiterated their room is right across the hall and said, "you're wasting time right now" and "why don't you go get started?"
Quote:
A prospective juror who works with seniors said Donald Trump "speaks his mind" and "stirs the pot."
"You can't judge him because he speaks his mind. I mean the way everyone wants to judge him for speaking his mind. … I know what's right and what's wrong," she said.
Trump lawyer Todd Blanche pressed her to explain what she thought of that behavior.
"I mean, he speaks his mind, come on, what can you say about that? If I told you all the time what I thought about people I want to say some things to people, but my momma said be nice."
Quote:
A prospective juror said that as a person of color, she has friends who have strong opinions on former President Donald Trump, but she does not consider herself not a political person, according to pool reporters.
She said she tries to avoid political conversations and doesn't really care for the news.
She added that she appreciates Trump's candor. "President Trump speaks his mind and I'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking," she said.
Most of the jurors in the box raised their hand when Trump attorney Todd Blanche asked if they are aware Trump is charged in other criminal cases. This juror was the only person to raise her hand to say she is just now learning that for the first time, according to the pool.
Quote:
Former President Donald Trump is back inside the courtroom.
He gave a thumbs up and is now whispering with his attorney Todd Blanche.
Quote:
Defense attorney Todd Blanche said they need more time, so Judge Juan Merchan said they will go through the list of potential jurors and remove some after lunch.
12:09p, 4/16/24
In reply to AggieUSMC
There is still an obstruction argument to be made despite the lack of charging and/or conviction. It is a weak argument in thise case but I consider the entire case to be very weak if not non-existent.AggieUSMC said:
could any lawyers on here explain how someone could get charged with covering up a crime that he was never charged with?
It seems a cover-up charge has to be a lesser included offense but Bragg is trying to charge him with a lesser included offense that's not "included" in anything.
12:10p, 4/16/24
Quote:
Court will be back at 2:15 p.m. ET, Merchan said.
Merchan said he'll use the last six potential jurors who've been sitting in the gallery listening to backfill whoever is dismissed.
There are still six potential jurors in this group who have not been questioned. After they are questioned, Merchan said he wants to bring in a second panel of prospective jurors today.
12:11p, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
They send jury summonses to people living under rocks? Or in solitary confinement with no access to the outside world?
aggiehawg said:Quote:
Susan Necheles, part of Donald Trump's legal team, said they need more time to go over the juror strikes with the former president.
She wanted to wait until after lunch to strike the jurors, saying by the time they get to their room across the hall, it will be lunchtime. Judge Juan Merchan reiterated their room is right across the hall and said, "you're wasting time right now" and "why don't you go get started?"Quote:
A prospective juror who works with seniors said Donald Trump "speaks his mind" and "stirs the pot."
"You can't judge him because he speaks his mind. I mean the way everyone wants to judge him for speaking his mind. … I know what's right and what's wrong," she said.
Trump lawyer Todd Blanche pressed her to explain what she thought of that behavior.
"I mean, he speaks his mind, come on, what can you say about that? If I told you all the time what I thought about people I want to say some things to people, but my momma said be nice."Quote:
A prospective juror said that as a person of color, she has friends who have strong opinions on former President Donald Trump, but she does not consider herself not a political person, according to pool reporters.
She said she tries to avoid political conversations and doesn't really care for the news.
She added that she appreciates Trump's candor. "President Trump speaks his mind and I'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking," she said.
Most of the jurors in the box raised their hand when Trump attorney Todd Blanche asked if they are aware Trump is charged in other criminal cases. This juror was the only person to raise her hand to say she is just now learning that for the first time, according to the pool.Quote:
Former President Donald Trump is back inside the courtroom.
He gave a thumbs up and is now whispering with his attorney Todd Blanche.Quote:
Defense attorney Todd Blanche said they need more time, so Judge Juan Merchan said they will go through the list of potential jurors and remove some after lunch.
They send jury summonses to people living under rocks? Or in solitary confinement with no access to the outside world?
12:12p, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiehawg
But isn't a charge/conviction of the underlying allegation a prerequisite for the lesser included charges? It doesn't make sense otherwise.aggiehawg said:There is still an obstruction argument to be made despite the lack of charging and/or conviction. It is a weak argument in thise case but I consider the entire case to be very weak if not non-existent.AggieUSMC said:
could any lawyers on here explain how someone could get charged with covering up a crime that he was never charged with?
It seems a cover-up charge has to be a lesser included offense but Bragg is trying to charge him with a lesser included offense that's not "included" in anything.
12:20p, 4/16/24
In reply to AggieUSMC
Further, I noticed that Judge Merchan was similarly vague when first instructing the jury panel about these charges in this case, only saying it was connected to "election interference" in the 2016 election. Is that a campaign finance violation? Some other type of election interference such as censorin the news with the catch and capture of unfavorable news stories with the National Enquirer (which is not illegal)?
Have no idea if there is a unified narrative on what actually is being alleged as the predicate crime here. Neither does the judge it would appear.
This case is bassackwards proceduraly because Bragg did not delineated which federal crime he claims Trump was trying to cover up that converted misdemeanor business charges to felonies and thu extending the statute of limitations. The misdemeanor charges would be time barred.Quote:
But isn't a charge/conviction of the underlying allegation a prerequisite for the lesser included charges? It doesn't make sense otherwise.
Further, I noticed that Judge Merchan was similarly vague when first instructing the jury panel about these charges in this case, only saying it was connected to "election interference" in the 2016 election. Is that a campaign finance violation? Some other type of election interference such as censorin the news with the catch and capture of unfavorable news stories with the National Enquirer (which is not illegal)?
Have no idea if there is a unified narrative on what actually is being alleged as the predicate crime here. Neither does the judge it would appear.
12:22p, 4/16/24
In reply to aggiejayrod
Or they lie because they think that will get them on the jury.aggiejayrod said:aggiehawg said:Quote:
Susan Necheles, part of Donald Trump's legal team, said they need more time to go over the juror strikes with the former president.
She wanted to wait until after lunch to strike the jurors, saying by the time they get to their room across the hall, it will be lunchtime. Judge Juan Merchan reiterated their room is right across the hall and said, "you're wasting time right now" and "why don't you go get started?"Quote:
A prospective juror who works with seniors said Donald Trump "speaks his mind" and "stirs the pot."
"You can't judge him because he speaks his mind. I mean the way everyone wants to judge him for speaking his mind. … I know what's right and what's wrong," she said.
Trump lawyer Todd Blanche pressed her to explain what she thought of that behavior.
"I mean, he speaks his mind, come on, what can you say about that? If I told you all the time what I thought about people I want to say some things to people, but my momma said be nice."Quote:
A prospective juror said that as a person of color, she has friends who have strong opinions on former President Donald Trump, but she does not consider herself not a political person, according to pool reporters.
She said she tries to avoid political conversations and doesn't really care for the news.
She added that she appreciates Trump's candor. "President Trump speaks his mind and I'd rather that than someone who's in office who you don't know what they're thinking," she said.
Most of the jurors in the box raised their hand when Trump attorney Todd Blanche asked if they are aware Trump is charged in other criminal cases. This juror was the only person to raise her hand to say she is just now learning that for the first time, according to the pool.Quote:
Former President Donald Trump is back inside the courtroom.
He gave a thumbs up and is now whispering with his attorney Todd Blanche.Quote:
Defense attorney Todd Blanche said they need more time, so Judge Juan Merchan said they will go through the list of potential jurors and remove some after lunch.
They send jury summonses to people living under rocks? Or in solitary confinement with no access to the outside world?
LOL OLD