Former oil exec. withdraws application to build private dam on South Llano River

Lance in Round Mountain

1:12p, 10/26/23

Greg Garland TAMU '80 - the former CEO of Phillips 66 - has withdrawn his permit application to build a private dam on his ranch in Edwards County. His proposed private pond would've been close to six olympic-sized swimming pools and taken nearly 4 million gallons from the South Llano River, quite controversially in parts of the Hill Country.

News Article

B-1 83

1:15p, 10/26/23

It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really

AggieOO

1:30p, 10/26/23

i'm far from an expert, so i'm sure someone will shoot holes in this question, but....

what about all the times texas doesn't get rain like we are getting now? Doesn't that dam stop water from flowing downstream in times like this summer when we are in a drought?

mpl35

1:44p, 10/26/23

In reply to B-1 83

B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.

AgGrad99

1:54p, 10/26/23

His dam made the news. When one of the stations went to report on the debate, someone tipped them off to this illegal dam:

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/illegal-dam-in-mason-county-blocking-water-from-refilling-highland-lakes/

Crazy that someone would build that without the proper permits, etc.

AgGrad99

1:56p, 10/26/23

In reply to mpl35

mpl35 said:
B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.

In the report, about the illegal dam, I saw one of the hydrologists mention that there are over 12,000 illegal dams he found. His estimate was 15% of the water that would go into the Highland Lakes, are being lost because of it. 15% is a ton of water, that is needed by this regions water sources.

"death by ten thousand cuts' is how he described it.

JB

1:59p, 10/26/23

I watched the video about the one on the James River. Nuts that he just built it not thinking about anyone else.

sonnysixkiller

2:02p, 10/26/23

Could have left off the TAMU 1980 part!

agnerd

2:12p, 10/26/23

In reply to AgGrad99

He means "unregistered" not "illegal." Most "dams", which we would refer to as "tanks", are not required to be registered and are in no way illegal.

agnerd

2:13p, 10/26/23

Oil exec will now proceed to build tanks and ponds on his property that will impound significantly more water than the 12 ac-ft he had previously planned. But the local group will claim victory and proceed to vigorously pat themselves on the back.

AgGrad99

2:18p, 10/26/23

In reply to agnerd

agnerd said:
He means "unregistered" not "illegal." Most "dams", which we would refer to as "tanks", are not required to be registered and are in no way illegal.

He probably said it correctly, and I passed it along incorrectly.

southernskies

2:18p, 10/26/23

What a dam shame

B-1 83

3:32p, 10/26/23

In reply to mpl35

mpl35 said:
B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.

Many already have. As I said, 12 acre feet is not as big as they make it sound. The placement may be what's really in question, and the river authorities and cities hate large ponds above because it deprives municipalities of water to sell. We routinely designed farm ponds of 1/2 surface acre 16 feet deep in areas west of Uvalde. With side slopes, that's not far off of 8 acre feet.

Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really

maroon barchetta

3:52p, 10/26/23

In reply to B-1 83

B-1 83 said:
mpl35 said:
B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.
Many already have. As I said, 12 acre feet is not as big as they make it sound. The placement may be what's really in question, and the river authorities and cities hate large ponds above because it deprives municipalities of water to sell. We routinely designed farm ponds of 1/2 surface acre 16 feet deep in areas west of Uvalde. With side slopes, that's not far off of 8 acre feet.

You sound like a dam expert.

mpl35

4:13p, 10/26/23

In reply to maroon barchetta

I thought he was a dam apologist

B-1 83

4:19p, 10/26/23

In reply to maroon barchetta

maroon barchetta said:
B-1 83 said:
mpl35 said:
B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.
Many already have. As I said, 12 acre feet is not as big as they make it sound. The placement may be what's really in question, and the river authorities and cities hate large ponds above because it deprives municipalities of water to sell. We routinely designed farm ponds of 1/2 surface acre 16 feet deep in areas west of Uvalde. With side slopes, that's not far off of 8 acre feet.

You sound like a dam expert.

I designed and staked a few in my 35 years with the gub'ment.

Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really

Satellite of Love

4:54p, 10/26/23

In reply to AgGrad99

AgGrad99 said:
His dam made the news. When one of the stations went to report on the debate, someone tipped them off to this illegal dam:

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/illegal-dam-in-mason-county-blocking-water-from-refilling-highland-lakes/

Crazy that someone would build that without the proper permits, etc.

This line gets me....

Quote:
Texas Parks and Wildlife and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said they hope to coordinate with the landowner to reach a desirable solution.

The only desirable solution is to destroy the damn and fine the **** out of the landowner for stupidity.

bad_teammate said on 2/10/21:
Just imagine how 1/6 would've played out if DC hadn't had such strict gun laws.

Two people starred his post as of the time of this signature. Those 3 people are allowed to vote in the US.

AgGrad99

5:06p, 10/26/23

In reply to Satellite of Love

Last update I read, that's what they are doing.

BoerneGator

5:21p, 10/26/23

In reply to agnerd

agnerd said:
Oil exec will now proceed to build tanks and ponds on his property that will impound significantly more water than the 12 ac-ft he had previously planned. But the local group will claim victory and proceed to vigorously pat themselves on the back.

Technically, ALL surface water (IOWs every drop of rain that falls from the sky) belongs to the people of Texas (not unlike whitetail deer). Every square foot of land lies in one watershed or another, with the "potential" to end up in a river. Ergo, "every pond" in the state impounds "the people's water" illegally!

See how very ridiculous this attitude is when taken to the "extreme". This proposed dam was on a dry creek bed. Just like many thousands pre-existing across the state.

maroon barchetta

5:38p, 10/26/23

John Dutton and Rip handled a situation similar to this.

BoerneGator

6:01p, 10/26/23

To follow up on my previous post, I believe the conventional wisdom/rationale for the law was to protect against unmitigated removal of water from rivers and lakes by adjacent landowners (or anyone else). Water was divided up (apportioned) long ago. This action attempts to prevent landowners from preventing or restricting natural flow with private dams/ponds/lakes, which have historically been allowed for livestock and recreation. It's an old struggle.

Ragoo

6:03p, 10/26/23

In reply to AgGrad99

AgGrad99 said:
mpl35 said:
B-1 83 said:
It takes away zero once it fills, and one event like today makes it moot. 12 acre feet is not that much water in the big picture.

What if 10 guys want to do it? Or a hundred? Adds up.
In the report, about the illegal dam, I saw one of the hydrologists mention that there are over 12,000 illegal dams he found. His estimate was 15% of the water that would go into the Highland Lakes, are being lost because of it. 15% is a ton of water, that is needed by this regions water sources.

"death by ten thousand cuts' is how he described it.

unless the rate of evaporation is equal to or greater than the rate of water coming in a lake is only a fat spot in the line creating residence time for the water.

Atreides Ornithopter

7:03p, 10/26/23

How many unregister dams were built by those pesky beavers?

Mas89

7:09p, 10/26/23

Grew up going to an uncles/ cousins ranch south of Vanderpool/ lost maples on the Sabinal river which was east of fm 187. It's now a real nice dude ranch. All of the different properties east of the Sabinal had a low water crossing to access their land. Some of the crossing were really built up and served as a small dam as well as a crossing. In both directions from their crossing, there were multiple actual dams built by different owners where we would swim and fish in the summers. Looking at maps/ google earth, they are still there and I will assume the same exists all over the hill country.
I'm not so sure they reduce water flow downstream as water runs over these dams/ crossings the same way it does at garner state park.

unclefish

7:39p, 10/26/23

From that article:

"[Lake recharge] is just not going to be like it used to," Furnans said. "You're going to need that massive whopper of a storm that's just going to overwhelm all of these small ponds and cause all this runoff to go in. We're not getting those as frequently as we used to. Really, I would love to see all of these small ponds removed."

Furnans is a communist. Lefties like this would gladly take all your property in the name of the greater good.

Jason_InfinityRoofer

9:32p, 10/26/23

I'm confused. I've read some articles. But clearly not enough.

This seems to be a tremendous pain in the neck for someone to go through with 800 acres. I'm not disparaging his property but rather, it's not big enough to really argue needing it but it's plenty big enough to just put large tanks on your own place with natural catchments. Sure, that's expensive, but again, what is the goal of damming the river that warrants going through this much pain, turmoil, angst, and…making your neighbors and community hate you? Is it a cheap way to make a tank?

What am I missing? Is the Llano crossing your place public water or no? Is that the issue too?

I guess I don't know how to feel about any of it because I don't really understand the motivation or gripes.

https://linqapp.com/jason_duke --- JasonDuke@InfinityRoofer.com --- https://infinityrooferjason.blogspot.com/

BigHead 04

9:57p, 10/26/23

In reply to AgGrad99

AgGrad99 said:
His dam made the news. When one of the stations went to report on the debate, someone tipped them off to this illegal dam:

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/illegal-dam-in-mason-county-blocking-water-from-refilling-highland-lakes/

Crazy that someone would build that without the proper permits, etc.

Just to clarify, that is a different dam. It's in the James river just upstream from dos rios.

That ******** only owns about 400 acres. Name is Bill Neusch who owns Gibraltar in burnet. Built this thing literally in the middle of the night. Then got busted by neighbors who are all old Mason county folks, all with big acreage. After getting busted by TPWD he then submitted a TCEQ application after construction was 99% complete. Looks like he may be giving up, as his application on TCEQ site disappeared yesterday morning. I hope it cost him millions.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

SteveBott

10:03p, 10/26/23

I have a great friend who is a lawyer for TCEQ water and he will tell you that no mercy is given if you build a damn without permission. It a given you will have to tear it out. And neighbors always notice the change in water flow and start calling his department.

AgGrad99

10:03p, 10/26/23

Correct. They went to report on the dam mentioned in the OP, and were tipped off about this other dam.

mwlkr

10:13p, 10/26/23

In reply to BigHead 04

BigHead 04 said:
AgGrad99 said:
His dam made the news. When one of the stations went to report on the debate, someone tipped them off to this illegal dam:

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/illegal-dam-in-mason-county-blocking-water-from-refilling-highland-lakes/

Crazy that someone would build that without the proper permits, etc.

Just to clarify, that is a different dam. It's in the James river just upstream from dos rios.

That ******** only owns about 400 acres. Name is Bill Neusch who owns Gibraltar in burnet. Built this thing literally in the middle of the night. Then got busted by neighbors who are all old Mason county folks, all with big acreage. After getting busted by TPWD he then submitted a TCEQ application after construction was 99% complete. Looks like he may be giving up, as his application on TCEQ site disappeared yesterday morning. I hope it cost him millions.

TPWD has already told him to tear it down. Neusch has lawyered-up, so, this might take a while. Waterstone has dropped his permit request. No dam will be built above the headwaters of the Llano.

BigHead 04

10:18p, 10/26/23

In reply to mwlkr

Yeah I was aware he lawyered up. And his connections and immense fortune made me feel like it would be a long battle (which I agree with you and still expect). But the new development of permit application being withdrawn gave a lot of us hope for now at least.

Dude has some serious connections and political donations too. Allegedly ha

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

JFABNRGR

10:40p, 10/26/23

Cant impound flowable water because its preventing highland lakes from filling up.

What about all the new wells all over the hill country siphoning it all out one straw at a time. Somebody suggested all new homes needing a well should be required to catch a portion of their needs with rainwater.

I like that idea but also recognize its still robbing peter to pay paul. That said I think I captured 4000 gallons the last 3 days.

tamc93

11:30p, 10/26/23

My past understanding is that the "rule of capture" exists provided that you do not impound any water that is collected in waters of the state.

E.g. you could collect rainfall before it hits stream beds.

FJB, FPA, and FAZ

tamc93

11:33p, 10/26/23

In reply to tamc93

tamc93 said:
My past understanding is that the "rule of capture" exists provided that you do not impound any water that is collected in waters of the state.

E.g. you could collect rainfall before it hits stream beds.

part of my answer was in the KXAN article:

It is important to note that while Furnans said all of those ponds are unregistered, they are not necessarily illegal. The Texas Commission on Environmental Quality and Texas Water Code allow landowners to build a water impoundment without a permit when:

The impoundment is not located on a watercourse
The impoundment has a normal storage capacity of 200 acre-feet or less, on average over a 12-month period, is only used for domestic and livestock purposes, and is constructed on a person's "own property." This exemption does not apply to a commercial operation
The impoundment has a normal storage capacity of 200 acre-feet or less, is used for fish and wildlife management purposes, is constructed on a person's "own property", and the property is qualified open-space land. This exemption does not apply to a commercial operation
The impoundment is part of a surface coal mining operation and is used for sediment control, fire suppression, or dust suppression

FJB, FPA, and FAZ

BoerneGator

3:40a, 10/27/23

In reply to unclefish

Quote:
"Really, I would love to see all of these small ponds removed."

Furnans is a communist. Lefties like this would gladly take all your property in the name of the greater good.

Communist indeed! He's some kind of "consultant" working for a special interest, with the point of view that water belongs to people in the cities exclusively, and landowners have no right to it. It's what this world has come to. Bizarre!