I saw 4J's closed shop a week or so ago. Not a bad little neighborhood place.
12:41p, 2/21/24
In reply to Booma94
Braman is a descendant of the O'Connor's.
They bought up half of Southern Texas which is why they act the way they do.
It also why if you ever meet them in Laredo, they think they own Laredo too.
They bought up half of Southern Texas which is why they act the way they do.
It also why if you ever meet them in Laredo, they think they own Laredo too.
12:48p, 2/21/24
The beer at Braman was terrible. Probably the worst craft beer I ever had in the area
9:19p, 2/21/24
Seems like a string of closings/reductions here of late.
Are sales down or debt just finally catching up with operations that were never sustainable?
Are sales down or debt just finally catching up with operations that were never sustainable?
9:26p, 2/21/24
It's a national issue. Most breweries are under capitalized in addition to changing trends in consumption. Industry is highly competitive and local craft is also at war with macro giants using every dirty trick to cripple them.
Smaller local biz are closing everywhere. Rising costs for labor and materials are also a huge issue. Getting squeezed from all sides.
Smaller local biz are closing everywhere. Rising costs for labor and materials are also a huge issue. Getting squeezed from all sides.
8:24a, 2/22/24
In reply to AlaskanAg99
Most local breweries are just bars that happen to make their own product. We see how much turnover exists with bars that dont have to worry about the production side of business. So unless you have a great location or a great product that keeps people wanting more, the microbrew business cycle has reached the stage where you aren't going to make it just by simply existing and putting out something that happens to have alcohol in it. If you are brewing on-site and not getting your product on store shelves, thats a lot of capital expense and labor to make brews for 40 people that may come in that week.
And while its not my usual choice of drink, seltzers are taking up huge amounts of shelf space at stores. Now most of these breweries closing weren't in stores to begin with, but its a sign in changing drink preferences for many.AlaskanAg99 said:
It's a national issue. Most breweries are under capitalized in addition to changing trends in consumption. Industry is highly competitive and local craft is also at war with macro giants using every dirty trick to cripple them.
Smaller local biz are closing everywhere. Rising costs for labor and materials are also a huge issue. Getting squeezed from all sides.
Most local breweries are just bars that happen to make their own product. We see how much turnover exists with bars that dont have to worry about the production side of business. So unless you have a great location or a great product that keeps people wanting more, the microbrew business cycle has reached the stage where you aren't going to make it just by simply existing and putting out something that happens to have alcohol in it. If you are brewing on-site and not getting your product on store shelves, thats a lot of capital expense and labor to make brews for 40 people that may come in that week.
8:30a, 2/22/24
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
8:38a, 2/22/24
In reply to Chewy
I'm sure it varies. I can see a place like No Label, 11 Below, or Paradigm being profitable as they are one of the top watering holes for their respective corner of Houston. I don't know if the 6th neighborhood brewery in the heights area will ever make a profit as their rent costs are even higher and they have a lot more competition for places people want to go to go drink.Chewy said:
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
9:04a, 2/22/24
In reply to Chewy
Even the big craft was crushed years ago. Stone contracted, Modern Times had to sell to Maui, Green Flash went bankrupt, I think New Belgium is still hanging in. All the bigs tried expanding to both coasts with new massive breweries right as consumers went hyper local and a lot of them lost their shirts.
Oskar Blues sold to Canarchy and this year shut down their Austin plant, that was a conglomerate of mid tier breweries.
Locally Astral sold and is now N. Shepard Brewing, some other sold but they opened at the beginning of covid and were just kinda screwed from the start.
Chewy said:
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
Even the big craft was crushed years ago. Stone contracted, Modern Times had to sell to Maui, Green Flash went bankrupt, I think New Belgium is still hanging in. All the bigs tried expanding to both coasts with new massive breweries right as consumers went hyper local and a lot of them lost their shirts.
Oskar Blues sold to Canarchy and this year shut down their Austin plant, that was a conglomerate of mid tier breweries.
Locally Astral sold and is now N. Shepard Brewing, some other sold but they opened at the beginning of covid and were just kinda screwed from the start.
9:20a, 2/22/24
Pour one out for Anchor Brewing as well.
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9:30a, 2/22/24
In reply to drumboy
Hopefully Anchor makes its way back as it seems to have some hope of the right owner gets the assets.
Anchor got hosed by classic corporate management that didn't understand what made it great in the first place. Some idiot in an office made decisions that took its soul and it was done.
Anchor got hosed by classic corporate management that didn't understand what made it great in the first place. Some idiot in an office made decisions that took its soul and it was done.
9:40a, 2/22/24
In reply to Chewy
It's like we used the say about the DG's at A&M. Nothing goes down faster than an anchor.
10:33a, 2/22/24
In reply to cajunaggie08
It would not surprise me to see No Label closed within two years.cajunaggie08 said:I'm sure it varies. I can see a place like No Label, 11 Below, or Paradigm being profitable as they are one of the top watering holes for their respective corner of Houston. I don't know if the 6th neighborhood brewery in the heights area will ever make a profit as their rent costs are even higher and they have a lot more competition for places people want to go to go drink.Chewy said:
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
10:44a, 2/22/24
In reply to Ducks4brkfast
If this opens next door to No Label: https://www.katybeergarden.us/
Might hasten its decline. But they are so kid friendly they usually have big crowds. It's always been horribly managed by competing owners though.
Might hasten its decline. But they are so kid friendly they usually have big crowds. It's always been horribly managed by competing owners though.
11:04a, 2/22/24
In reply to Ducks4brkfast
The $7 12 oz beers piss me off. Yes, you get 16oz if you buy their pint glass for $7 or more.
Eureka is my go to and if you're in the High Five club you get 20 oz pours.
Ducks4brkfast said:It would not surprise me to see No Label closed within two years.cajunaggie08 said:I'm sure it varies. I can see a place like No Label, 11 Below, or Paradigm being profitable as they are one of the top watering holes for their respective corner of Houston. I don't know if the 6th neighborhood brewery in the heights area will ever make a profit as their rent costs are even higher and they have a lot more competition for places people want to go to go drink.Chewy said:
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
The $7 12 oz beers piss me off. Yes, you get 16oz if you buy their pint glass for $7 or more.
Eureka is my go to and if you're in the High Five club you get 20 oz pours.
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11:05a, 2/22/24
In reply to AlaskanAg99
Yes, that was my point.AlaskanAg99 said:
If this opens next door to No Label: https://www.katybeergarden.us/
Might hasten its decline. But they are so kid friendly they usually have big crowds. It's always been horribly managed by competing owners though.
11:06a, 2/22/24
In reply to Ducks4brkfast
Has their crowd significantly died down? I'm sure weekdays and bad weather days are slow but I have yet to go on a Saturday and see it empty.
Now the new beerhall opening next door could hurt. As long as No Label keeps the playground and is seen as the family friendly option, I would think they'd be ok, but I don't know if the owners are profiting enough to make the work and stress be worth it.
Their saving grace might be they are the property owner of their site. While property values and taxes have gone up, they don't have to worry about a landlord jacking up rent due to perceived success at that location.Ducks4brkfast said:It would not surprise me to see No Label closed within two years.cajunaggie08 said:I'm sure it varies. I can see a place like No Label, 11 Below, or Paradigm being profitable as they are one of the top watering holes for their respective corner of Houston. I don't know if the 6th neighborhood brewery in the heights area will ever make a profit as their rent costs are even higher and they have a lot more competition for places people want to go to go drink.Chewy said:
Were these places ever truly making money or just riding off invested cash?
I was always curious if there was money to be made or just people doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
Obviously the bigger names were/are making money but more curious about the "neighborhood breweries."
Has their crowd significantly died down? I'm sure weekdays and bad weather days are slow but I have yet to go on a Saturday and see it empty.
Now the new beerhall opening next door could hurt. As long as No Label keeps the playground and is seen as the family friendly option, I would think they'd be ok, but I don't know if the owners are profiting enough to make the work and stress be worth it.
11:20a, 2/22/24
In reply to cajunaggie08
Are you sure NL owns that property? I didn't think they did.
11:30a, 2/22/24
In reply to Ducks4brkfast
They are listed as the owner on HCAD
Nevermind. Some real estate company owns the land. No Label just owes taxes on the inventory
Nevermind. Some real estate company owns the land. No Label just owes taxes on the inventory
11:32a, 2/22/24
What blows my mind on all of the taprooms, if they distribute I can buy their beer at my local craft beer bar cheaper than at the source.
Any of the local spots that are kid friendly will be great, regardless if the product is good or not. A lot of them make really awful beers.
Any of the local spots that are kid friendly will be great, regardless if the product is good or not. A lot of them make really awful beers.
11:37a, 2/22/24
IIRC, they have to give their beers to the distributors and buy their own beer from them to serve in their taproom
11:37a, 2/22/24
I always forget to bring NL glasses with me when I go there. Usually I leave 2 in my vehicle for that very reason.
On Tuesdays they do half price growler fills. It's the best deal in town. Their beer has gotten better but it's still out of the way for me. I hope that beer garden doesn't close them down, as it's just a **** deal to open a joint next to a brewery.
Was at World of Beer recently and felt like a Belgian dark strong so I bought a bottle of Chimay Blue...bill told me later it was a $20 bottle. Stick to draft because JFC.
On Tuesdays they do half price growler fills. It's the best deal in town. Their beer has gotten better but it's still out of the way for me. I hope that beer garden doesn't close them down, as it's just a **** deal to open a joint next to a brewery.
Was at World of Beer recently and felt like a Belgian dark strong so I bought a bottle of Chimay Blue...bill told me later it was a $20 bottle. Stick to draft because JFC.
11:44a, 2/22/24
In reply to Ducks4brkfast
HCAD doesnt do individual links in their property search tool.
Look up 5341 1ST ST KATY, TX 77493. Account: 0471210000188.
Look up 5341 1ST ST KATY, TX 77493. Account: 0471210000188.
12:22p, 2/22/24
In reply to redag06
I agree but they don't want to undercut the bars and stores that sell their products.
And yes, they have to pay distributors for the beer they sell in house even though the distributor never touches it.
redag06 said:
What blows my mind on all of the taprooms, if they distribute I can buy their beer at my local craft beer bar cheaper than at the source.
Any of the local spots that are kid friendly will be great, regardless if the product is good or not. A lot of them make really awful beers.
I agree but they don't want to undercut the bars and stores that sell their products.
And yes, they have to pay distributors for the beer they sell in house even though the distributor never touches it.
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12:28p, 2/22/24
I remember the old days of St. Arnold's. You would pay like 8 bucks for the tour, then get a few wooden tokens to "sample" the beer. It was all volunteer run so you could basically drink for hours on those tokens.
Guess those days are long gone.
Guess those days are long gone.
12:29p, 2/22/24
In reply to Diggity
Yep, good times. That's how it was until they legalized taproom sales.
Diggity said:
I remember the old days of St. Arnold's. You would pay like 8 bucks for the tour, then get a few wooden tokens to "sample" the beer. It was all volunteer run so you could basically drink for hours on those tokens.
Guess those days are long gone.
Yep, good times. That's how it was until they legalized taproom sales.
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12:40p, 2/22/24
In reply to Diggity
That was always a fun game of seeing if the volunteer would ask for the token. I always tried to bat .500 or better. Nothing like getting three tokens, drinking six beers, and leaving with one token in your pocket. Felt like a massive victory.
My personal favorite was Rahr in Fort Worth used to do viewing parties. They did one for the Saints Super Bowl and one when TCU beat Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. Forget the years but remember those games.
It was $15 all you could drink and you got a Kincaid's hamburger which is a staple in Fort Worth.
It was 4+ hours of beer and a delicious burger for $15. I didn't realize the bargain it was at the time.
Needless to say those days are long gone.
My personal favorite was Rahr in Fort Worth used to do viewing parties. They did one for the Saints Super Bowl and one when TCU beat Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. Forget the years but remember those games.
It was $15 all you could drink and you got a Kincaid's hamburger which is a staple in Fort Worth.
It was 4+ hours of beer and a delicious burger for $15. I didn't realize the bargain it was at the time.
Needless to say those days are long gone.
1:59p, 2/22/24
In reply to Chewy
Saint Arnold had a good lunch special in the beer hall before the beer garden was built. $20 for 3 course lunch and unlimited beer on weekdays.
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2:30p, 2/22/24
Saint Arnold has really good food and is still a decent deal at menu prices. I really like Karbach's kitchen as well. Neither will give Taste of Texas a run for best restaurant in Houston, but each is really good at what they do (even if they are owned by AB in the case of Karbach).
9:22p, 2/23/24
In reply to Diggity
Goin into the way back machine to the OG Dacoma location, so many good times there.
Diggity said:
I remember the old days of St. Arnold's. You would pay like 8 bucks for the tour, then get a few wooden tokens to "sample" the beer. It was all volunteer run so you could basically drink for hours on those tokens.
Guess those days are long gone.
Goin into the way back machine to the OG Dacoma location, so many good times there.