In reply to 10andBOUNCE Yeah, I figured at worst the one arm could be my workaround. It's not something I do regularly so it would only be a minor annoyance.

I haven't used a cable machine in forever, I've been so focused on barbell stuff. I definitely think mixing in some lat pulldowns in my training blocks would be a game changer for my back development. And I like it for bicep and tricep work.

In reply to CC09LawAg

CC09LawAg said:

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Yeah, I figured at worst the one arm could be my workaround. It's not something I do regularly so it would only be a minor annoyance.

I haven't used a cable machine in forever, I've been so focused on barbell stuff. I definitely think mixing in some lat pulldowns in my training blocks would be a game changer for my back development. And I like it for bicep and tricep work.

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I'm in the same situation, only free weights forever. My current home gym is a wall mount RML-3, in a small 8x12 space, and I'm wanting to move over to my single car garage and expand with the BOS cable tower, for that reason alone.

In reply to sanitariex Have you looked at any of the rack mounted pad type gimmicks for barbell rows?

I know I *should* do them without the support, but I also know it's usually my lower back giving out before my back does. I have seen some different options and I feel like having my chest supported would allow me to move way more weight with a barbell.

I have thought about a landmine attachment as well, but I just haven't ever been that into the landmine stuff.

In reply to CC09LawAg You can do chest-supported rows with a bench. Usually, it's done with dumbbells but I assume you could do a barbell too if your bench doesn't interfere.

In reply to CC09LawAg I have the landmine attachment and use slip over T-Handle (not exactly sure what it is called) that you can grip narrow or wide. If you don't overload weight, control the eccentric, and squeeze, you don't always have to go heavy.

You can also do Meadow's rows and single arm rows with a landmine and on other days, you can do single arm landmine presses, sumo squats, and a few things for core.

I'd really recommend getting one because they're not that expensive and they don't take up much room. It is nice to have a little variety in the home gym too.

In reply to ttha_aggie_09 Part of my reason for wanting the pad is that my form seems to breaks down when I get into higher reps and I catch myself raising my chest/elevating my back as my lower back tires out, so I don't get as parallel to the floor as I would like. I think the pad would help me stay deeper in the position so I am hitting my back where I want it to, rather than my traps starting to take over.

You're right though, the landmine is relatively cheap so it might be worth grabbing one to play around with it. I have heard it causes issues with your bar long term. Is that something to be concerned about in a personal use case, or something that only happens in a commercial setting where the bar is getting way more use?

In reply to CC09LawAg I'm not an expert on landmines but that might be one I would pick up a cheap used barbell off marketplace for landmine use.

In reply to CC09LawAg I'm sure it can damage it over time but haven't seen any damage on my bar thus far.

In reply to ttha_aggie_09 I think the main concern with long term use is bending the bar from it having the load entirely on one end. I'm not sure what loads you have to use to achieve that or if it's more likely to happen on bars with more flex or not.

couldn't you just alternate ends you use to minimize that? I guess if it's gonna bend one end, it's gonna still bend though.

Just fixed my adjustable dumbbells and was taking them for a spin (incline press) for the first time in 3 weeks. Nothing likw losing all your stabilizer control while the target muscle is totally good to go.

I have been doing SL 5x5s off and on for years. I'm currently at a point where I am happy with all 5 lifts and muscle size.

If I'm not trying to grow, does 5 sets of 5 make sense? I've already modified the schedule by doing each lift twice a week with acceptable results.

Could or should I go 3 x 5 with the same weight and not lose anything.

I would like to use the saved time/energy to put in to other exercises, but don't want to slide in what I consider my core metrics.

In reply to ttha_aggie_09

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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I have the landmine attachment and use slip over T-Handle (not exactly sure what it is called) that you can grip narrow or wide. If you don't overload weight, control the eccentric, and squeeze, you don't always have to go heavy.

You can also do Meadow's rows and single arm rows with a landmine and on other days, you can do single arm landmine presses, sumo squats, and a few things for core.

I'd really recommend getting one because they're not that expensive and they don't take up much room. It is nice to have a little variety in the home gym too.

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Thanks for this post … I usually only use this for t-bar rows at the gym, but did standing landmine presses yesterday and loved it. Gonna start using that piece of equipment more now for sure!

In reply to Pantera Glad I was able to help! Always nice to add some variety to your routine, especially if you have the setup for it already.

In reply to AGTX What "other" exercises are you doing? Is it other weights, or is it plyometrics/cardio stuff?

If the former, I would calculate the volume you're doing with the 5x5 and just keep an eye on it - maybe try to go to a 3x5 on bench but up your reps/sets/weight on DB bench press as an example.

In reply to AGTX If you're just burnt out on the 5x5 structure and want to mix in some other lifts, 5/3/1 has been good for me in that regard. I do my main 4 lifts but still have plenty in the tank for other stuff as well.

For example, you could do 5/3/1 and instead of doing more bench as your main accessory that day, you could do DB bench press, incline DB bench, dips, etc.

It's a super flexible program and I'm enjoying tinkering with the variations.

In reply to CC09LawAg This has been my plan, been doing 5x5 off and on for years, been going hard at it consistently that I want to mix it up in 2024 with more accessory work.

In reply to sanitariex I've found that if I'm very intentional and focused with my accessory work that it usually translates to good gains on the main lifts.

You have to be sure not to spread yourself too thin, but if you hit each block with a mindset of "I want to work on X as my priority" and program around that, you should be good. There's always something else to work on so I try to take it one thing at a time.

In reply to CC09LawAg I'd like to add cardio and rotational exercises to the mix.

In reply to AGTX As far as cardio, I am not sure if you have your mind made up on what kind you want to do - but I think plyometrics, sprints, sleds, etc. are a great way to get your cardio in that will also carry over into your strength training.

If you're looking to do distance running, you may lose a little strength just because of the differing nature of the exercises and the additional calories burned. I haven't run more than a mile in years though so I would have no idea how to program strength training + distance running.

But I would think trying a 3x5 for a few months is a safe way to experiment with your workload and see if you're happy with the results. You may "lose" a little strength while your body adjusts, but I think after a few weeks you'll be fine. If you lose anything, you're probably only a few months away from getting it back.

Also, another plug for 5/3/1 - but cardio is part of the programming as written. Pushing a sled, running hills, box jumps, etc.

In reply to AGTX I did 5x5 SL for a good while and switched over to 5/3/1 a few years ago.

One small change would be to move away from the 5x5 Barbell Row and add some other back work in. For a long time, I tracked BB Rows on 5/3/1 but have since enjoyed doing some other back/accessory work instead.

In reply to 10andBOUNCE It's probably because my form sucks, but I have seen way more growth in my back since ditching the BB rows and adding in pull ups, chin ups, and dumbbell rows with 5/3/1.

I plan on revisiting barbell rows, but for now I've been happy with the changes I am seeing without them.

Edit to add: plus, I think the barbell rows were contributing to my overall body fatigue and taking away from some of my other lifts.

In reply to CC09LawAg Barbell rows are extremely difficult to do with proper form and heavy weight, in my opinion. It is also an exercise that is easy to tweak your back with heavy weight if not careful.

I try and stick to a weight I can do 6-8 reps or more and/or focusing on a controlled squeeze at top and tempo eccentric. I also switched to only doing them every other week and supplement them with a chest supported row - either machine or T-Bar.

I agree on the BB Rows, I actually started doing Marcie for that reason, to throw in more accessory work like chin-ups and pullups

In reply to CC09LawAg Agree with BB Rows maybe taking away from some of the other lifts. However I do think they have been a solid contributor to building a good deadlift for me anyways. I just know doing 5x5 of Barbell Rows can be pretty taxing.

I've even been thinking of adding a seal row pad to my rack just to ensure my form stays right and strict on barbell rows the heavier it gets:

https://www.bellsofsteel.us/all-products/racks/hydra/hydra-attachments/hydra-attachments-non-storage/hydra-seal-row-pad/

Anyone used a tib bar for leg extensions?

I am playing around with the setup - I have a tall box for box jumps and I have also slightly angled my bench and sat on the end of it, which I think I liked a little better.

I only had 20 pounds on it and it actually felt pretty good. I am wondering what is "heavy" for a free weight leg extension vs machine leg extension. I assume that ultimately the machine is better for hypertrophy, but for a home setup I think I may have to make do with the tib bar for now.

In reply to sanitariex I was looking at that pad earlier, when looking at their plate loaded cable machine. They sell it as something you can use as support for your lat pulldowns as well? I am not sure I have figured out how that setup would work yet.

In reply to 10andBOUNCE

10andBOUNCE said:

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I did 5x5 SL for a good while and switched over to 5/3/1 a few years ago.

One small change would be to move away from the 5x5 Barbell Row and add some other back work in. For a long time, I tracked BB Rows on 5/3/1 but have since enjoyed doing some other back/accessory work instead.

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I've don't 5x5 off and on for years. It absolutely works great. I achieved all kinds of PRs when I was committed to it. But I feel like it puts your body in a ton of stress. I reached a point where I was discouraged because the lifts took so long with needed rest between heavy sets.

Recently I transitioned to a very simple 3x a week split where I hit each muscle group once a week with higher reps (5-12). I add in a bunch of stretching daily. I feel much better physically and am still seeing gains (from my recent starting point).

In reply to Farmer1906 You may have somewhere else in the thread but care to share your 3 day split?

In reply to 10andBOUNCE Back/Bi

• Bent Over Row Row (BB) 3x12
• Lat Pulldown (Cable) 3x12
• Deadlift (BB) 2x5
• Curl (BB) 3x12
• Hammer Curl (DB)

Chest/Tri and... shoulder (not ideal but I fit it in somewhere)

• Incline Bench (BB) 3x8-12
• Chest Fly (DB) 3x12
• Overhead Press (BB) 3x8-12
• Lateral Raise (DB) 3x12
• Skullcrusher (curl) 3x12
• Tricep Extension (cable)

Legs/Core

• Squat (BB) 3x6-8
• Lying Leg Curl (bench attachment) 3x12
• Leg Extension (bench attachment) 3x12
• Standing Calf Raise (BB) 4x12-15
• Plank 3x60 sec

Usually on that 3rd set, it may be lower reps if I hit failure. Sometimes I got over 1-2 too if I feel like I got it too easily. Depending on the lift, I will do a warm-up set at a lower weight that I don't always track.


Nothing special. Not perfectly optimized, but simple enough and I feel like I hit pretty much everything. I am thinking about adding RDLs and an occasional hex bar DL. I track it all on the Strength App (you can make a few free templates before that ask for a sub). It tracks your sets, reps, PRs, estimates 1RM, keeps time, etc. Outside of this, I mix in an occasional "max" on a lift or a day of tire flips, sledge hammers, med ball work to keep what little power/explosiveness I have left. Those are tougher on the body tho.

In reply to Farmer1906 Thanks!

On flat bb bench, do you all keep your butt down on the bench or does it sometimes come off slightly when you arch your back? If so, if that bad? Good?

I've noticed that sometimes my rear pops off and I can actually do more reps vs. when my butt is firmly planted with an arched back.

In reply to Pantera I don't think there is anything wrong with it. That's what powerlifters do. It shortens the range of motion needed so there you should be able to hit a higher weird when done properly. I don't think it's necessary for the weekend warrior trying to not get moobs.

In reply to Pantera I always aim to keep my butt down while arching my back. It will sometimes lift off a little when I am really grinding out a heavy rep. I think in order to keep a stable base for your lift, ideally you are keeping your upper back and butt in contact with the bench at all times.

If your goal is to move heavy weight, there is nothing wrong with arching your back and using leg drive. I know for hypertrophy some people will not use leg drive so that they are solely using the chest/tricep muscles and not "cheating" by using leg drive.

If you aren't competing, I wouldn't sweat the butt coming off the bench as long as it isn't consistent/isn't coming off by 6 inches or anything like that.