Hopefully another fantastic series by Hanks and Spielberg
1:19p, 11/9/23
I'm as skeptical as I am for a Jimbo Fisher news conference. Yes, I would like this to be great, but I've seen 5 years of hype and crappy CGI pushed out about this project, I'm dubious.
2:47p, 11/9/23
In reply to aalan94
I think this one's the real deal now. January 2024 is the premier. Can't remember the exact date.
6:16p, 11/10/23
In reply to aalan94
Don Miller the author of the book has seen much of it and he was pleased.
9:57p, 11/10/23
My problem with this is that I won't be able to watch this without seeing Elvis flying a B-17.
7:00a, 11/11/23
Did the Tuskegee Airman ever escorts the 8th AF? Tried a quick look but didn't see anything. I know they flew out of Italy and the Mediterranean. Or is this show going to be a collection of stories and bounce between several protagonists?
Also
The ground combat scenes threw me off.
Also
The ground combat scenes threw me off.
7:24a, 11/11/23
My problem is with Hollywood's recent portrayal of blacks and whites fighting alongside of each other when in fact there was segregation. Stick to the truth both good and bad and if that offends you maybe seek counseling.
9:54a, 11/11/23
In reply to JABQ04
Flying out of Italy, they most likely escorted the bombers of the 15th Air Force, not the 8th.
JABQ04 said:
Did the Tuskegee Airman ever escorts the 8th AF? Tried a quick look but didn't see anything. I know they flew out of Italy and the Mediterranean. Or is this show going to be a collection of stories and bounce between several protagonists?
Also
The ground combat scenes threw me off.
Flying out of Italy, they most likely escorted the bombers of the 15th Air Force, not the 8th.
9:57a, 11/11/23
In reply to BrazosBendHorn
So the show will be a collection of 8th AF and 15th AF units/people?
Edit. Series will highlight both the 8th AF bomber crews and a second storyline about the Tuskegee Airmen.
Edit. Series will highlight both the 8th AF bomber crews and a second storyline about the Tuskegee Airmen.
10:06a, 11/11/23
In reply to tmaggies
The 332nd fighter group(the Tuskegee airmen) was flying out of Italy at the time the 100th bombardment group(heavy) was flying out of England. The 332nd escorted missions over Germany from Italy. Was there ever a time when the two were in the same air space at the same time? I don't know.
Maybe they cover more than just the 100th bombardment group in the series?
Having seen the lengths to which Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg went to get it right on Band of Brothers and the Pacific and then Tom Hanks again on Greyhound, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and am not going to judge the entire series based on a single trailer.tmaggies said:
My problem is with Hollywood's recent portrayal of blacks and whites fighting alongside of each other when in fact there was segregation. Stick to the truth both good and bad and if that offends you maybe seek counseling.
The 332nd fighter group(the Tuskegee airmen) was flying out of Italy at the time the 100th bombardment group(heavy) was flying out of England. The 332nd escorted missions over Germany from Italy. Was there ever a time when the two were in the same air space at the same time? I don't know.
Maybe they cover more than just the 100th bombardment group in the series?
10:08a, 11/11/23
In reply to JABQ04
Just speculating here and looking around the actors portraying the 332nd pilots are all only in 1 episode. The 100th became known as the bloody 100th flying unescorted missions in '43. So I suspect they start the series talking about the escorted missions later in the war and utilize the 332nd flying cover for 15th AF bombers out of Italy into Germany. Then they flash back to summer of '43 when the 100th is flying unescorted missions.
I hadn't seen this stated yet, but that makes a lot of sense.JABQ04 said:
So the show will be a collection of 8th AF and 15th AF units/people?
Edit. Series will highlight both the 8th AF bomber crews and a second storyline about the Tuskegee Airmen.
Just speculating here and looking around the actors portraying the 332nd pilots are all only in 1 episode. The 100th became known as the bloody 100th flying unescorted missions in '43. So I suspect they start the series talking about the escorted missions later in the war and utilize the 332nd flying cover for 15th AF bombers out of Italy into Germany. Then they flash back to summer of '43 when the 100th is flying unescorted missions.
8:30p, 11/14/23
The other significant aspect of the book is how it fearlessly raises the ethical/moral question of the "area bombing" that we eventually used. The book also spent a fair amount of time discussing the experience of average Germans who were on the receiving end of those raids.
Will be interesting.
Will be interesting.
9:42a, 11/15/23
In reply to BrazosBendHorn
How much does that matter to the overall story of the challenges the Army Air Corp faced, if we're talking about the everyday person? I personally think very little but my opinion can be changed.
It's not like they'll have a the only South Carolina plantation owner who freed their slaves as the protagonist in an American Revolution drama.
BrazosBendHorn said:JABQ04 said:
Did the Tuskegee Airman ever escorts the 8th AF? Tried a quick look but didn't see anything. I know they flew out of Italy and the Mediterranean. Or is this show going to be a collection of stories and bounce between several protagonists?
Also
The ground combat scenes threw me off.
Flying out of Italy, they most likely escorted the bombers of the 15th Air Force, not the 8th.
How much does that matter to the overall story of the challenges the Army Air Corp faced, if we're talking about the everyday person? I personally think very little but my opinion can be changed.
It's not like they'll have a the only South Carolina plantation owner who freed their slaves as the protagonist in an American Revolution drama.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
9:49a, 11/15/23
In reply to ABATTBQ87
This is tough to watch... It's not just a plane but 10 guys getting shredded by 20 and 30 MM explosive shells. "Saving Private Ryan" beach landing scene in a plane 3 to 5 miles in the sky repeated 4,500 times...ABATTBQ87 said:
Flying Fortresses through the lens of Luftwaffe gun cameras
11:25a, 11/15/23
In reply to Rabid Cougar
All the huge chunks flying off those bombers makes me wonder how many times a German pilot was knocked down or killed by flying debris.
5:18p, 11/15/23
In reply to CT'97
Read the book called "Biggest Brother" …..first hand personal account of Major Dick Winters and his time with the 506th and Easy Company. I was surprised that in this book he stated he was oftentimes on the outs with Hanks and sometimes Ambrose on things in Band of Brothers that he wanted changed but were not. He actually shunned Hanks over it.
5:27p, 11/15/23
In reply to tmaggies
This. Reference the movie Red Tails…. There were maneuvers in that movie that they showed the P-51 doing that utterly ridiculous. They were good pilots and some mediocre pilots… black, white, Hispanic all.
Tell the truth and people will respect it…. But to portray them as doing those fake maneuvers was actually a slap in the face to those accomplished pilots.
Tell the truth and people will respect it…. But to portray them as doing those fake maneuvers was actually a slap in the face to those accomplished pilots.
5:33p, 11/15/23
In reply to CT'97
Personally, I don't think you can compare the Band of Brothers to the Pacific. I was totally disappointed in the Pacific series. Just my opinion.
11:33a, 11/16/23
In reply to Gunny456
"Undaunted Courage" is full of examples of this.
Ambrose took artistic license with stories to make them more "entertaining".Gunny456 said:
Read the book called "Biggest Brother" …..first hand personal account of Major Dick Winters and his time with the 506th and Easy Company. I was surprised that in this book he stated he was oftentimes on the outs with Hanks and sometimes Ambrose on things in Band of Brothers that he wanted changed but were not. He actually shunned Hanks over it.
"Undaunted Courage" is full of examples of this.
3:45p, 11/17/23
In reply to Gunny456
Winters didn't like the morphing of multiple soldiers into a single character in the series to tell the stories. I get that and if I was there I would as well, but to steal a line from the making of Top Gun, they weren't making a documentary.
Those are two completely different stories that couldn't be told the same way. Two separate books, My Helmet for a Pillow and With the Old Breed, about two separate groups of marines stretching over a much longer period of time.
The invasion of Normandy to the fall of Germany was only 10 months, Guadalcanal to the fall of Japan was 3 years. It lead to the story feeling disjointed as you jumped from one group of actors to another. That was the reality of the island hopping campaign. We island hopped because it strategically made sense but also because the task groups (Navy/Marines and Army) who just took one island group were not capable of fighting again and had to recuperate and refit.
I've read it and own a copy but it's been a decade since I did. I'll have to go back and reread it. I remember disagreements not not a grudge and know that they both spoke highly of each other in interviews well after the series came out.Gunny456 said:
Read the book called "Biggest Brother" …..first hand personal account of Major Dick Winters and his time with the 506th and Easy Company. I was surprised that in this book he stated he was oftentimes on the outs with Hanks and sometimes Ambrose on things in Band of Brothers that he wanted changed but were not. He actually shunned Hanks over it.
Winters didn't like the morphing of multiple soldiers into a single character in the series to tell the stories. I get that and if I was there I would as well, but to steal a line from the making of Top Gun, they weren't making a documentary.
Quote:
Personally, I don't think you can compare the Band of Brothers to the Pacific. I was totally disappointed in the Pacific series. Just my opinion
Those are two completely different stories that couldn't be told the same way. Two separate books, My Helmet for a Pillow and With the Old Breed, about two separate groups of marines stretching over a much longer period of time.
The invasion of Normandy to the fall of Germany was only 10 months, Guadalcanal to the fall of Japan was 3 years. It lead to the story feeling disjointed as you jumped from one group of actors to another. That was the reality of the island hopping campaign. We island hopped because it strategically made sense but also because the task groups (Navy/Marines and Army) who just took one island group were not capable of fighting again and had to recuperate and refit.
6:13p, 11/17/23
In reply to CT'97
Yea my dad and his two older brothers were in the Pacific theater. Dad in Guam and New Guinea, other brother was survivor of the Battan death march.
Dad did not like the Pacific series at all.
In reference to the book Biggest Brother…. It is in Chapter 16 pages 258-261 that items are brought up that Winters disliked and his discussions with Hanks and when he told him he would "shun" him.
In the end Winters says he was pleased with the series.
Dad did not like the Pacific series at all.
In reference to the book Biggest Brother…. It is in Chapter 16 pages 258-261 that items are brought up that Winters disliked and his discussions with Hanks and when he told him he would "shun" him.
In the end Winters says he was pleased with the series.
10:47a, 12/6/23
Will they have German pilots threating "I'm coming to get youuuuuuuuu" like in Greyhound?
7:04p, 12/6/23
In reply to Rabid Cougar
I agree, every hit on the fuselage had to be creating carnage within. I don't know if they were trying to kill the crew, or just disable the plane. My assumption was they aimed for "center mass", and hoped to get lucky. There were a few shots where it appeared they were targeting the engines.
I also noticed that a lot of the victims were lone bombers. I assume they were happy to pick off a single dropout, rather than risk the fire of a formation.
I also noticed that a lot of the victims were lone bombers. I assume they were happy to pick off a single dropout, rather than risk the fire of a formation.
8:20p, 12/6/23
Tuskegee Airmen - Aggie(land) related because at least three trained at Bryan Airfield
2:10p, 12/8/23
In reply to CanyonAg77
You still had some Experten that could pull off deflection shots against the bombers but this also exposed to them to more defensive fire. They were ones that would target gunners, engines and pilots.
The ones you see where they are just sitting behind a plane (as in above) they are finishing off stragglers. They would do this as the bombers came off the target and pick off the damaged planes. Same for when the box got strung out heading home. A single bomber was easy pickins if controls damaged, engines shot out and half the crew dead or wounded.
Here is gun camera video of the attacking bomber boxes... notice the amount of return fire...
Gun camera film
Film 2
Some of this is from ME-110's. They are standing off outside the M2's range and lobbing 20mm rounds at a mass of targets... They would damage them causing them to fall out of formation....then close in for the kill.
You had to have big brass ones to attack a fully intact bomber box. There were a 'zillion M2s in a bomber box and escort fighters just waiting for you to show up. You didn't have time to snipe. Usually it was just aim center mass from astern and pray and spray. This exposed the attacker to least amount of defensive fire. And this was just your average Luftwaffe pilots.CanyonAg77 said:
I agree, every hit on the fuselage had to be creating carnage within. I don't know if they were trying to kill the crew, or just disable the plane. My assumption was they aimed for "center mass", and hoped to get lucky. There were a few shots where it appeared they were targeting the engines.
I also noticed that a lot of the victims were lone bombers. I assume they were happy to pick off a single dropout, rather than risk the fire of a formation.
You still had some Experten that could pull off deflection shots against the bombers but this also exposed to them to more defensive fire. They were ones that would target gunners, engines and pilots.
The ones you see where they are just sitting behind a plane (as in above) they are finishing off stragglers. They would do this as the bombers came off the target and pick off the damaged planes. Same for when the box got strung out heading home. A single bomber was easy pickins if controls damaged, engines shot out and half the crew dead or wounded.
Here is gun camera video of the attacking bomber boxes... notice the amount of return fire...
Gun camera film
Film 2
Some of this is from ME-110's. They are standing off outside the M2's range and lobbing 20mm rounds at a mass of targets... They would damage them causing them to fall out of formation....then close in for the kill.
8:31a, 12/9/23
Look forward to this series. A Higher Call is a great book addressing a Luftwaffe pilots time starting in N. Africa progressing to jets. Later in the war the Fortress formations were so formidable that the German attack plan was to start at high altitude and dive straight through the formation taking out what they could.
10:47a, 12/13/23
A review of the trailer ...
Which, btw, supports my statement earlier that the Tuskegee Airmen (flying out of Italy) would not be flying escort with an 8th Air Force group (flying out of England) (see discussion at 7:40). Nice of the producers to work them into the narrative, but it's not accurate.
Which, btw, supports my statement earlier that the Tuskegee Airmen (flying out of Italy) would not be flying escort with an 8th Air Force group (flying out of England) (see discussion at 7:40). Nice of the producers to work them into the narrative, but it's not accurate.
1:38p, 12/13/23
I hope everyone remembers that this is a historical depiction and not a history lesson. My love of history was encouraged by historically inaccurate movies.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
4:53p, 12/14/23
In reply to Ghost of Andrew Eaton
While your classification of this is accurate, I'm going to say that shoe-horning in a group that anyone with any ounce of ability to read any number of historically accurate books will know this is fiction. These filmmakers don't have to toe the line with 100% accuracy, but at least keep it in the ball park. The fact that there were black aviators in WWII is not in the ball park with regard to the 8th Air Force, and this is a historical fact.
I have nothing but respect for the Tuskegee Airmen. But over the last 20 years or so, I've seen a group that I barely knew much about during my years upon years of reading about WWII suddenly burst onto the historic scene as the saviors of the Allied war efforts. It seems the popular thing with regard to media types is to give the TA more credit for what they did than they should get while downplaying the efforts of all others. Yes, they played a role in winning WWII, for which they should absolutely be honored, but they did not win the war on their own.
I have nothing but respect for the Tuskegee Airmen. But over the last 20 years or so, I've seen a group that I barely knew much about during my years upon years of reading about WWII suddenly burst onto the historic scene as the saviors of the Allied war efforts. It seems the popular thing with regard to media types is to give the TA more credit for what they did than they should get while downplaying the efforts of all others. Yes, they played a role in winning WWII, for which they should absolutely be honored, but they did not win the war on their own.
#FJB
7:23p, 12/14/23
In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie
I don't disagree with you but maybe this gets some people to actually start reading a book on the TA or the rest of the air war in WW2.
I'd say the original BoB does exactly what you complain about the TA.
I'd say the original BoB does exactly what you complain about the TA.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.