The crew of Space Shuttle Challenger were not killed in the explosion and breakup of the orbiter, but rather the impact of the crew cabin with the ocean 2:45 minutes later.
11:56a, 1/29/24
In reply to Strong Men Armed
That was my grandfather born in 1893,Strong Men Armed said:
Surprised no one mentioned this one:
The Wright brothers are credited with the first aircraft flight, in 1903. Charles Lindbergh flew solo across the Atlantic in 1927. Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon in 1969. Three of the most significant events in aviation history. A child who was 10 years old in 1903 would have been 76 in 1969, and would have remembered all three.
The advances in aeronautical engineering over 66 years may be unmatched in any other field of endeavor.
The person that is not willing to fight and die, if need be, for his country has no right to life.
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
James Earl Rudder '32
January 31, 1945
2:46p, 1/30/24
In reply to Aggie_Journalist
Putting together an army of giants in the age of impressment would have been simpler than modern times.
But it took his son to really put them to work, didn't it (except the cavalrymen who he got rid of and recruited smaller men and horses for his light cavalry)?
But it took his son to really put them to work, didn't it (except the cavalrymen who he got rid of and recruited smaller men and horses for his light cavalry)?
3:33p, 1/31/24
In reply to P.H. Dexippus
This one makes you shudder.P.H. Dexippus said:
The crew of Space Shuttle Challenger were not killed in the explosion and breakup of the orbiter, but rather the impact of the crew cabin with the ocean 2:45 minutes later.
5:40p, 1/31/24
In reply to Leggo My Elko
I had a friend find a boot in his driveway and another almost get hit with a screw while walking out to get the paper.
I was hone that weekend from tamu and had stayed up to like 5am with hs buddies. My mom came in at 7am or so and woke me up to tell me the shuttle had exploded.
I got dressed, not thinking much of it, and went down to the tire shop to get a tire fixed. Of course, a lot of local farmers and ranchers were there and all talking about the pieces having fallen on their properties. The tire shop got a hole in its roof.
Nacogdoches became a media madhouse for the next couple of days. I remember the threats if you were to pick up some of the shuttle and take it home. But, I couldn't distinguish trash from the shuttle.
That was a crazy day/weekend
Leggo My Elko said:This one makes you shudder.P.H. Dexippus said:
The crew of Space Shuttle Challenger were not killed in the explosion and breakup of the orbiter, but rather the impact of the crew cabin with the ocean 2:45 minutes later.
I had a friend find a boot in his driveway and another almost get hit with a screw while walking out to get the paper.
I was hone that weekend from tamu and had stayed up to like 5am with hs buddies. My mom came in at 7am or so and woke me up to tell me the shuttle had exploded.
I got dressed, not thinking much of it, and went down to the tire shop to get a tire fixed. Of course, a lot of local farmers and ranchers were there and all talking about the pieces having fallen on their properties. The tire shop got a hole in its roof.
Nacogdoches became a media madhouse for the next couple of days. I remember the threats if you were to pick up some of the shuttle and take it home. But, I couldn't distinguish trash from the shuttle.
That was a crazy day/weekend
5:49p, 1/31/24
In reply to Agthatbuilds
Wrong Space shuttle, the one over Texas they mercifully burned up before hitting the ground
8:31p, 1/31/24
In reply to Strong Men Armed
And five years after the Wright Brother's famous flight at Kittyhawk in 1903, Orville Wright became the first pilot of a fatal air crash. A passenger, Army Lt. Thomas E. Selfridge, was killed during a crash of a plane being flown by Wright at Ft. Meyers, VA.
Strong Men Armed said:
Surprised no one mentioned this one:
The Wright brothers are credited with the first aircraft flight, in 1903. Charles Lindbergh flew solo across the Atlantic in 1927. Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon in 1969. Three of the most significant events in aviation history. A child who was 10 years old in 1903 would have been 76 in 1969, and would have remembered all three.
The advances in aeronautical engineering over 66 years may be unmatched in any other field of endeavor.
And five years after the Wright Brother's famous flight at Kittyhawk in 1903, Orville Wright became the first pilot of a fatal air crash. A passenger, Army Lt. Thomas E. Selfridge, was killed during a crash of a plane being flown by Wright at Ft. Meyers, VA.
5:15p, 2/2/24
The famous Clausewitz book Vom Krieg (On War) was merely a collection of notes when he died. It was his widow, Marie, who organized it and got it into publishable shape. The book is still a fundamental part of US war doctrine.
6:01p, 2/2/24
In reply to BQ78
They died from trauma due to massive G forces as the orbiter spun out of control shortly before its disintegration. Burning was postmortem.BQ78 said:
Wrong Space shuttle, the one over Texas they mercifully burned up before hitting the ground
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
8:24p, 2/2/24
In reply to McInnis
In Arlington National Cemetery:
First Lieutenant Thomas E
Selfridge
1st Regt - Field Artillery
USA
Killed in the service
Of the United States
In an aerodrome
accident
September 17, 1908
Aged 26
Amazing guy, bio at:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/2293/thomas-etholen-selfridge
My photo belowMcInnis said:
And five years after the Wright Brother's famous flight at Kittyhawk in 1903, Orville Wright became the first pilot of a fatal air crash. A passenger, Army Lt. Thomas E. Selfridge, was killed during a crash of a plane being flown by Wright at Ft. Meyers, VA.
In Arlington National Cemetery:
First Lieutenant Thomas E
Selfridge
1st Regt - Field Artillery
USA
Killed in the service
Of the United States
In an aerodrome
accident
September 17, 1908
Aged 26
Amazing guy, bio at:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/2293/thomas-etholen-selfridge
8:43p, 2/2/24
In reply to CanyonAg77
Selfridge ANG Base north of Detroit is named after him. My brother-in-law was stationed there twice while in the Coast Guard.
9:21p, 2/2/24
In reply to CanyonAg77
His uncle was on the USS Cumberland when it was sunk by CSS Virginia at Hampton Roads. His uncle was also the skipper of USS Cairo that was sunk by a mine in the Yazoo and is currently on display at Vicksburg NMP.
5:13p, 2/4/24
In World War II the German Army handed down 30,000 death sentences for its soldiers, 22,000 were carried out. By comparison there were 48 total in World War I.
7:58p, 2/4/24
In reply to BQ78
By way of comparison, the U.S. Army executed about 160 soldiers during and after World War II. Only one soldier was executed for desertion, Pvt. Eddie Slovik. The rest of the executions were for rape and/or murder.
10:05p, 2/4/24
In reply to Green2Maroon
Slovik's commanding officers gave him two chances to be reassigned to a different artillery unit which he declined. Then the court martial judge gave him a third chance and again he declined. He said he would rather face prison than return to combat duty. He apparently didn't think execution was a possibility.
After being sentenced he changed his mind and pleaded to Ike for clemency but by then it was too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik
After being sentenced he changed his mind and pleaded to Ike for clemency but by then it was too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik
6:50a, 2/5/24
In reply to Green2Maroon
Do we count the 4 dozen or so soldiers sent on suicide missions to destroy a Nazi Chateua or kill a Nazi general who is going to assassinate Hitler?Green2Maroon said:
By way of comparison, the U.S. Army executed about 160 soldiers during and after World War II. Only one soldier was executed for desertion, Pvt. Eddie Slovik. The rest of the executions were for rape and/or murder.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
7:38p, 2/5/24
Its often cited that Robert E Lee was the only west point graduate to never receive a demerit, but he was actually 1 of 6 in his graduating class of 46 (he was #2 in his class)
7:41p, 2/5/24
In reply to McInnis
reading that link, i didn't know there was a special out of the way cemetery plot for American servicemen executed for crimes in the European theater. 94 plots there, but 98 total executions for crimes, of which Slovik was the only one in the plot for not committing murder or rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oise-Aisne_American_Cemetery_Plot_E
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oise-Aisne_American_Cemetery_Plot_E
8:04p, 2/5/24
In reply to agrams
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/photos/jimmy-carter-in-uniform#:~:text=Jimmy%20Carter%20completed%20the%20Naval,a%20class%20of%20820%20students.
I do not believe that is correct. He was #59 in his class.Quote:
Jimmy Carter graduated from the Naval Academy as the #1 cadet
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/photos/jimmy-carter-in-uniform#:~:text=Jimmy%20Carter%20completed%20the%20Naval,a%20class%20of%20820%20students.
8:17p, 2/5/24
In reply to agrams
Plot E is fascinating, thanks for the link.
Slightly related, there is an old Army Post at El Reno, Oklahoma. Behind the Post Cemetery is another, walled-off section. It is the burial ground of German and Italian POWs who died while in US POW camps. Lots of POWs who died later had their remains sent home, but these are the ones no one wanted, or could afford to return. Heck, they might not even have familied who survived the war.
I believe that most POWs were buried at the camps where they were held. After the war, those camps closed, and the remains were either sent home, or moved to El Reno.
Five Italians died at the camp near me (Hereford), I believe all their remains were eventually repatriated.
Fort Reno is a neat little area, worth a stop if you're in the area.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/history/2023/04/09/why-fort-reno-cemetery-works-to-keep-memory-of-wwii-pows-alive/69982912007/
http://www.fortreno.org/
Slightly related, there is an old Army Post at El Reno, Oklahoma. Behind the Post Cemetery is another, walled-off section. It is the burial ground of German and Italian POWs who died while in US POW camps. Lots of POWs who died later had their remains sent home, but these are the ones no one wanted, or could afford to return. Heck, they might not even have familied who survived the war.
I believe that most POWs were buried at the camps where they were held. After the war, those camps closed, and the remains were either sent home, or moved to El Reno.
Five Italians died at the camp near me (Hereford), I believe all their remains were eventually repatriated.
Fort Reno is a neat little area, worth a stop if you're in the area.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/history/2023/04/09/why-fort-reno-cemetery-works-to-keep-memory-of-wwii-pows-alive/69982912007/
http://www.fortreno.org/
8:40p, 2/5/24
In reply to Jabin
correct, he didn't grad 1st.
When Carter was in the navy interviewing for a job, an admiral asked him if he'd always given his best at the Academy. He was about to say yes, then stopped and said "no, sir." The admiral asked why and he couldn't think of an answer. The admiral dismissed him from the interview, and the question stayed with him the rest of his life.
When Carter was in the navy interviewing for a job, an admiral asked him if he'd always given his best at the Academy. He was about to say yes, then stopped and said "no, sir." The admiral asked why and he couldn't think of an answer. The admiral dismissed him from the interview, and the question stayed with him the rest of his life.
Thanks and gig'em
8:41p, 2/5/24
In reply to BQ78
I can think of one WWI vet I wish the Germans had shot
BQ78 said:
In World War II the German Army handed down 30,000 death sentences for its soldiers, 22,000 were carried out. By comparison there were 48 total in World War I.
I can think of one WWI vet I wish the Germans had shot
Thanks and gig'em
9:13p, 2/5/24
In reply to Jabin
Probably the most notable person ever to graduate first in their class in any of the service academies was Douglas MacArthur.Jabin said:I do not believe that is correct. He was #59 in his class.Quote:
Jimmy Carter graduated from the Naval Academy as the #1 cadet
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/photos/jimmy-carter-in-uniform#:~:text=Jimmy%20Carter%20completed%20the%20Naval,a%20class%20of%20820%20students.
9:27p, 2/5/24
I recall a guy wrote a book about the guys who finished last in the classes at West Point. Referred to as "The Goat", the last place grads include George Pickett and George Custer.
https://people.howstuffworks.com/culture-traditions/national-traditions/west-point-goat.htm
https://people.howstuffworks.com/culture-traditions/national-traditions/west-point-goat.htm
10:20p, 2/5/24
thanks. It was late, so not sure where i read that.. fixed my post.. the part about Lee was interesting, as you see that fact cited often.
10:26p, 2/5/24
In reply to Aggie_Journalist
Brings up a whole 'nother possible discussion.
Does removing one person change history?
Sure, Hitler was the leader, but how likely is it that some other dictator arises out of the ashes of WWI Germany? And who knows if this one would be smart enough to not invade Russia, stay off the drugs, take Jews as allies, not enemies, etc. etc.
I think you can make an argument that science progresses along several parallel lines. Wright Brothers got the airplane, but lots of other folks were on the same track. Would have happened somewhere within the next 5 years, too many technologies coming together to make it possible.
Don't think leading nations is quite so predictable.
Aggie_Journalist said:BQ78 said:
In World War II the German Army handed down 30,000 death sentences for its soldiers, 22,000 were carried out. By comparison there were 48 total in World War I.
I can think of one WWI vet I wish the Germans had shot
Brings up a whole 'nother possible discussion.
Does removing one person change history?
Sure, Hitler was the leader, but how likely is it that some other dictator arises out of the ashes of WWI Germany? And who knows if this one would be smart enough to not invade Russia, stay off the drugs, take Jews as allies, not enemies, etc. etc.
I think you can make an argument that science progresses along several parallel lines. Wright Brothers got the airplane, but lots of other folks were on the same track. Would have happened somewhere within the next 5 years, too many technologies coming together to make it possible.
Don't think leading nations is quite so predictable.
9:30a, 2/6/24
In reply to agrams
Everybody got demerits at West Point but they had the capability of working them off, which is what Lee did. On the other end of the spectrum, 200 demerits resulted in expulsion. That is why John Magruder started walking some off his senior year because he graduated with 196.
The great Bishop Leonidas Polk said of class standings, "Five years after graduation will obliterate the fact of an individual's standing here or there, or even if it is recollected, it will be said perhaps, that he obtained it for having a knack at small things, great plodding and the like."
The great Bishop Leonidas Polk said of class standings, "Five years after graduation will obliterate the fact of an individual's standing here or there, or even if it is recollected, it will be said perhaps, that he obtained it for having a knack at small things, great plodding and the like."
10:07a, 2/6/24
In reply to BQ78
What's the line, "The world is run by C students"?
Here's a list of all the top grads in USMA history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Military_Academy_top-ranking_graduates
The only ones I have heard of are:
Custis Lee 1854 (son of Robert E. Lee)
Douglas McArthur 1903
Wesley Clark 1966
Here's a list of all the top grads in USMA history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Military_Academy_top-ranking_graduates
The only ones I have heard of are:
Custis Lee 1854 (son of Robert E. Lee)
Douglas McArthur 1903
Wesley Clark 1966
10:28a, 2/6/24
In reply to CanyonAg77
What?!?!?
You missed Ranald McKenzie the great Indian fighter!
And Dennis Hart Mahan considered the Father of the USMA and the literal father of Mahan the naval mastermind.
Keep in mind, #1s were brainiacs and all went into the Corps of Engineers in the early days. There were no other engineering schools in the country so the Corps of Engineers was the only source for the growing nation's civil engineering projects. So most were kept out of combat roles. Lee had to fight like hell to get orders to the 2nd Cav.
Other #1s I see that made a mark in the Civil War:
-Issac Steven's, corps commander killed at Chantilly and former territorial governor of Washington.
- Jame B. McPherson who succeeded Sherman as Commander of the Army of the Tennessee and was killed in the Battle of Atlanta
- William HC Whiting, Confederate MG and first commander of Hood's Texas Brigade.
- William B. Franklin, commander of the Left Grand Division at Fredericksburg and more culpable for the disaster there than Burnside. He was also supposed to command the ground forces at Sabine Pass but they never got off the boats.
You missed Ranald McKenzie the great Indian fighter!
And Dennis Hart Mahan considered the Father of the USMA and the literal father of Mahan the naval mastermind.
Keep in mind, #1s were brainiacs and all went into the Corps of Engineers in the early days. There were no other engineering schools in the country so the Corps of Engineers was the only source for the growing nation's civil engineering projects. So most were kept out of combat roles. Lee had to fight like hell to get orders to the 2nd Cav.
Other #1s I see that made a mark in the Civil War:
-Issac Steven's, corps commander killed at Chantilly and former territorial governor of Washington.
- Jame B. McPherson who succeeded Sherman as Commander of the Army of the Tennessee and was killed in the Battle of Atlanta
- William HC Whiting, Confederate MG and first commander of Hood's Texas Brigade.
- William B. Franklin, commander of the Left Grand Division at Fredericksburg and more culpable for the disaster there than Burnside. He was also supposed to command the ground forces at Sabine Pass but they never got off the boats.
10:33a, 2/6/24
In reply to BQ78
I just missed Mackenzie. He's a pretty big name in this area, I would have known him, just skimmed over him.
Will admit the others you mentioned are not on my radar.
Will admit the others you mentioned are not on my radar.