In reply to shack009

shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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HawthornAggie said:

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shack009 said:

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South Platte said:

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shack009 said:

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We would do well to remember Dirk didn't go to his first finals until his 11th season and didn't win until his 16th season.

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We won 50+ games for like 10 years straight with Dirk. We didn't have seasons like this until he got old and we lost all our good players.

This team is a total failure. The franchise is in complete disarray, which is unthinkable after reaching the WCF last year. This isn't growing pains with young players.

The Stars seem to be the only franchise in this town with a steady plan. The others are completely ridiculous.

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I agree the team is a total failure. But that's because the players on it aren't very good. Who is the third best player on the team? Is it a toss up between Josh Green and CWood? There were never Mavs teams that had this little talent when Dirk was winning 50+ games.

People need to understand that last year was an aberration. We got matched up with an overrated Utah team and then shot lights out in 4 games against the Suns to get to the WCF to be blown out by a not superb Warriors team.

This team needs so much help, talent-wise.

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Great points. The fact that Dwight Powell has started as many games as he has since Luka has been here is incredible. From a talent perspective, how many other NBA teams would he be starting for?

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I just looked on ESPN and Dwight Powell is rostered in 0.9% of fantasy leagues. He is the 75th most rostered player with Center eligibility.

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Yeah, but that doesn't mean much to his value on court. He's a solid defensive center. Stevenson and JJ Barea started over Terry. Who was the better guard?

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I realize it's a gross oversimplification, but basically in terms of on court production, fantasy players consider Powell a 3rd string NBA center. There are no serious teams out there operating like that.

In fact, the Mavs only have three players that are heavily rostered in fantasy leagues: Luka, Kyrie, and Wood is rostered in 85% of leagues. The next closest is THJ in 12% of leagues.

Serious teams don't have 3 playable fantasy players haha. Again, I realize this is overly simplistic, but a crazy perspective on how bad the talent and production is from almost the entire roster.

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Yeah, I don't disagree at all in the Mavs having a lack of talent. But I also wouldn't ever use fantasy rosters as a metric to judge an individual player's worth to a team. That's absolutely crazy.

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There are certain things JJ Barea and guys like Jose Alvarado bring to a team that aren't measured in fantasy, but Dwight Powell is useless in both fantasy and real life. I'm not sure you want to die on the Dwight Powell hill.

He's a rim-running center who isn't overly athletic and doesn't really protect the rim either. He used to shoot 3s early in his career but he stopped shooting and his FT percentage has been consistently below average. He has to lead the league in dropped rebounds or dropped passes, as well as getting inadvertent shots to the face.

His on/off numbers may be good because he is on the court when Luka is on the court. Put it this way: there are no playoff teams that want Powell on their team, let alone as their starter.

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Yeah, I'm not gonna die on the Powell hill. He's not ideal. But lots of role players make valuable contributions to teams that don't show up on the stat sheet. JJ, Caruso, Bowen, Michael Cooper, Robert Horry, etc. I'm not saying Powell is one of those guys, just saying that's a crazy metric to run with.

In reply to Guitarsoup

Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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HawthornAggie said:

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shack009 said:

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South Platte said:

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shack009 said:

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We would do well to remember Dirk didn't go to his first finals until his 11th season and didn't win until his 16th season.

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We won 50+ games for like 10 years straight with Dirk. We didn't have seasons like this until he got old and we lost all our good players.

This team is a total failure. The franchise is in complete disarray, which is unthinkable after reaching the WCF last year. This isn't growing pains with young players.

The Stars seem to be the only franchise in this town with a steady plan. The others are completely ridiculous.

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I agree the team is a total failure. But that's because the players on it aren't very good. Who is the third best player on the team? Is it a toss up between Josh Green and CWood? There were never Mavs teams that had this little talent when Dirk was winning 50+ games.

People need to understand that last year was an aberration. We got matched up with an overrated Utah team and then shot lights out in 4 games against the Suns to get to the WCF to be blown out by a not superb Warriors team.

This team needs so much help, talent-wise.

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Great points. The fact that Dwight Powell has started as many games as he has since Luka has been here is incredible. From a talent perspective, how many other NBA teams would he be starting for?

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I just looked on ESPN and Dwight Powell is rostered in 0.9% of fantasy leagues. He is the 75th most rostered player with Center eligibility.

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Yeah, but that doesn't mean much to his value on court. He's a solid defensive center. Stevenson and JJ Barea started over Terry. Who was the better guard?

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I realize it's a gross oversimplification, but basically in terms of on court production, fantasy players consider Powell a 3rd string NBA center. There are no serious teams out there operating like that.

In fact, the Mavs only have three players that are heavily rostered in fantasy leagues: Luka, Kyrie, and Wood is rostered in 85% of leagues. The next closest is THJ in 12% of leagues.

Serious teams don't have 3 playable fantasy players haha. Again, I realize this is overly simplistic, but a crazy perspective on how bad the talent and production is from almost the entire roster.

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Yeah, I don't disagree at all in the Mavs having a lack of talent. But I also wouldn't ever use fantasy rosters as a metric to judge an individual player's worth to a team. That's absolutely crazy.

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There are certain things JJ Barea and guys like Jose Alvarado bring to a team that aren't measured in fantasy, but Dwight Powell is useless in both fantasy and real life. I'm not sure you want to die on the Dwight Powell hill.

He's a rim-running center who isn't overly athletic and doesn't really protect the rim either. He used to shoot 3s early in his career but he stopped shooting and his FT percentage has been consistently below average. He has to lead the league in dropped rebounds or dropped passes, as well as getting inadvertent shots to the face.

His on/off numbers may be good because he is on the court when Luka is on the court. Put it this way: there are no playoff teams that want Powell on their team, let alone as their starter.

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Yeah, I'm not gonna die on the Powell hill. He's not ideal. But lots of role players make valuable contributions to teams that don't show up on the stat sheet. JJ, Caruso, Bowen, Michael Cooper, Robert Horry, etc. I'm not saying Powell is one of those guys, just saying that's a crazy metric to run with.

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Ok gotcha. We are on the same page.

In reply to shack009

shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

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Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

In reply to shack009

shack009 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

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Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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Bags of trash? Stevenson was a defensive menace who could hit a corner three. JET was a 6th man of the year. Kidd was a great 3 point shooter and still a good defender at that point in his career. Tyson Chandler may have been the second most valuable player on the team.

Dirk was surrounded by guys who could play and in some cases were elite at their position (Terry as a scorer off the bench and Chandler at C). Luka has never had a roster around him in the same galaxy as that group.

Barea was the 7th or 8th guy on that team and he'd be the third or fourth guy on this team.

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You're insane saying barea would be the 3rd or 4th guy on this team

In reply to zgolfz85

zgolfz85 said:

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shack009 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

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Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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Bags of trash? Stevenson was a defensive menace who could hit a corner three. JET was a 6th man of the year. Kidd was a great 3 point shooter and still a good defender at that point in his career. Tyson Chandler may have been the second most valuable player on the team.

Dirk was surrounded by guys who could play and in some cases were elite at their position (Terry as a scorer off the bench and Chandler at C). Luka has never had a roster around him in the same galaxy as that group.

Barea was the 7th or 8th guy on that team and he'd be the third or fourth guy on this team.

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You're insane saying barea would be the 3rd or 4th guy on this team

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Not at his current age, but 2011 Barea haha.

This team is ass. Losing to the ****ing HORNETS?? TWICE??

In reply to TefIon Don

TefIon Don said:

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This team is ass. Losing to the ****ing HORNETS?? TWICE??

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Dennis Smith Jr. is on the Hornets too.

What's frustrating is the talent that we have/have had this season has been so mismanaged. Like many have pointed out, the inconsistent lineups and minute distribution for players not named Luka or Kyrie just looks like darts are being blindly thrown at a wall.

Doesn't matter who Dirk played with.

Here and now we are garbage and last season wasn't an aberration. We had been really close the previous 2 years in tough series with the clippers. The suns were soft and shrunk from the moment.

If Luka won't shut up and be a leader on the court and make his teammates better then let's trade him.

In reply to South Platte

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If Luka won't shut up and be a leader on the court and make his teammates better then let's trade him.

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That's part of what has been, from the outside, disappointing about Kidd. Kidd has the experience and skins to say "listen kid, you have all the talent in the world, but you have a lot to learn".....but is he?

They fired a coach because Luka thought he was mean. So shocker when Luka feels empowered to act how he wants, and the new coach has read the tea leaves and knows he can only go so far on putting his foot down when it comes to Luka. They appeased a young diva and are now paying for it. They ended up with a players coach who sucks ass strategically and doesn't seem in control of anything. His team, which does have shortcomings but is nowhere near THIS bad, has spiraled under adversity and coach has literally zero answers.

I get that stars influencing coaching moves in this league is common. But this was still a very young, immature player to appease and they made a bad, twice failed hire

In reply to mavsfan4ever

mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

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Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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You must not remember that season well, Butler was a big reason we had the record we did in the regular season.

And you seriously calling them bags of trash? Stevenson is the closest from that roster to the quality of player on this one.
That roster had Terry, Kidd, Marion, Chandler and Butler that were all better players, and Barea too probably.
They werent all stars, and Dirk was definitely the main reason we won.

In reply to South Platte

South Platte said:

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If Luka won't shut up and be a leader on the court and make his teammates better then let's trade him.

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lol

In reply to HawthornAggie

HawthornAggie said:

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What's frustrating is the talent that we have/have had this season has been so mismanaged. Like many have pointed out, the inconsistent lineups and minute distribution for players not named Luka or Kyrie just looks like darts are being blindly thrown at a wall.

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Hardy should play 30+ minutes every game. He's our Jordan Poole/Jordan Clarkson. The team can't stop anybody anyway, so why bother playing Frank or Holiday as much as he has been?

The Hardy stuff makes absolutely no sense.

In reply to shack009

shack009 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

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Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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Bags of trash? Stevenson was a defensive menace who could hit a corner three. JET was a 6th man of the year. Kidd was a great 3 point shooter and still a good defender at that point in his career. Tyson Chandler may have been the second most valuable player on the team.

Dirk was surrounded by guys who could play and in some cases were elite at their position (Terry as a scorer off the bench and Chandler at C). Luka has never had a roster around him in the same galaxy as that group.

Barea was the 7th or 8th guy on that team and he'd be the third or fourth guy on this team.

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I love all the guys you mentioned and was being hyperbolic calling them bags of trash. It was incredible how that team played and how everyone fit together that year. But you are overestimating how good the roster was. For example, Stevenson was out of the league shortly after the championship run, and no one did much of anything in the league after leaving the Mavs.

The last few games will be fascinating to see the strategy. If the Mavs lose out for the next 7 games they will land at least with the 10th pick, most likely 9th. At the same time if they won out they are almost certainly in the play-in, probably in the 7th spot with two chances to get into the playoffs. Considering Irving's foot issue and Luka's thigh issues, it wouldn't be a stretch to hold them out. If there were an adult in charge they would step in right now and do the right thing to tank. Losing out would effectively guarantee keeping their pick with an outside chance at #1. On the other hand, the play-in is close enough and these guys are idiots (I mean, competitors) so I can't imagine they don't go for it and finish 3-4 in the last 7 games or something. This would keep the Mavs from simultaneously retaining their pick and also making the play-in.

In reply to mavsfan4ever

mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

---

Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

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This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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Bags of trash? Stevenson was a defensive menace who could hit a corner three. JET was a 6th man of the year. Kidd was a great 3 point shooter and still a good defender at that point in his career. Tyson Chandler may have been the second most valuable player on the team.

Dirk was surrounded by guys who could play and in some cases were elite at their position (Terry as a scorer off the bench and Chandler at C). Luka has never had a roster around him in the same galaxy as that group.

Barea was the 7th or 8th guy on that team and he'd be the third or fourth guy on this team.

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I love all the guys you mentioned and was being hyperbolic calling them bags of trash. It was incredible how that team played and how everyone fit together that year. But you are overestimating how good the roster was. For example, Stevenson was out of the league shortly after the championship run, and no one did much of anything in the league after leaving the Mavs.

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correct -- that locker room was a tight one and Carlisle and Dirk made all of these guys better players. The hunger for a late career ring and veteran maturity blended together for a perfect formula, but there's a reason all of those guys faded away quickly after getting the ship.

In reply to zgolfz85

zgolfz85 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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shack009 said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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luka continues to prove day in and day out that he's no dirk....

---

Also let me know when the mavs get Luka the equivalent of JET, Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. to help Luka win games.

Mavs are an unserious organization right now that has rolled out Dwight Powell at C for the better part of a decade.

---

This has to be a joke. Dirk carried those bags of trash to a title. Did you really just name deshaun Stevenson as a key piece to a championship? And butler who was hurt?

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Bags of trash? Stevenson was a defensive menace who could hit a corner three. JET was a 6th man of the year. Kidd was a great 3 point shooter and still a good defender at that point in his career. Tyson Chandler may have been the second most valuable player on the team.

Dirk was surrounded by guys who could play and in some cases were elite at their position (Terry as a scorer off the bench and Chandler at C). Luka has never had a roster around him in the same galaxy as that group.

Barea was the 7th or 8th guy on that team and he'd be the third or fourth guy on this team.

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I love all the guys you mentioned and was being hyperbolic calling them bags of trash. It was incredible how that team played and how everyone fit together that year. But you are overestimating how good the roster was. For example, Stevenson was out of the league shortly after the championship run, and no one did much of anything in the league after leaving the Mavs.

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correct -- that locker room was a tight one and Carlisle and Dirk made all of these guys better players. The hunger for a late career ring and veteran maturity blended together for a perfect formula, but there's a reason all of those guys faded away quickly after getting the ship.

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A lot faded away because they were old.
Butler was 31 with lots of injuries.
Dirk was 33.
Marion was 33.
Peja was 34.
Terry was 34.
Kidd was 38.

But those guys and Chandler were all very talented, well-respected players. While Dirk didn't have a second superstar with him (Kidd was obviously no longer a superstar), that team was built extremely well, with some great defenders, some great shooting (Dirk, Terry, Stephenson, Peja and Kidd all hit 37% or better from 3 in the playoffs) and with Marion, Chandler and Kidd, some great toughness. Barea was the only rotational player under 28. So lots of veteran saavy.

The 11 Mavs are pretty much the prototype of how you would want to build a team around a single elite player that isnt a post or lead playmaker. Saavy veterans, defense, shooting, good passing, toughness, and an instant offense 6th man.

Is 16 technicals a lot in one season? It seems like it is to me. Is ESPN freaking out about that Luka has lost control?

Mavs fan, but an extremely casual one, and don't watch sports news anymore.

In reply to Definitely Not A Cop

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Is 16 technicals a lot in one season? It seems like it is to me. Is ESPN freaking out about that Luka has lost control?

Mavs fan, but an extremely casual one, and don't watch sports news anymore.

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Only 4 players have 15 or more. (Luka, Trae, Draymond, and Dillon Brooks.)

12 players have 10-11 techs.

In reply to Definitely Not A Cop

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Is 16 technicals a lot in one season? It seems like it is to me. Is ESPN freaking out about that Luka has lost control?

Mavs fan, but an extremely casual one, and don't watch sports news anymore.

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Two of the dirtiest players in the league have more than him. Luka is 3rd. I think Trae Young is up there also.

Luka is obviously not a dirty player, but his consistent whining costs the team probably between 3-10 points a game as he gets called for the technical or doesn't hustle back on defense.

In reply to Carlo4

Carlo4 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Is 16 technicals a lot in one season? It seems like it is to me. Is ESPN freaking out about that Luka has lost control?

Mavs fan, but an extremely casual one, and don't watch sports news anymore.

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Two of the dirtiest players in the league have more than him. Luka is 3rd. I think Trae Young is up there also.

Luka is obviously not a dirty player, but his consistent whining costs the team probably between 3-10 points a game as he gets called for the technical or doesn't hustle back on defense.

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Yep, I'd rather him have techs for hard fouls than being a little whiny *****. He's easily the biggest whiner in the league next to Lebron

Lol the guys on The Fan talked about being in good hands with Kidd to rebuild over the next two years and right the ship

In reply to wangus12

wangus12 said:

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Lol the guys on The Fan talked about being in good hands with Kidd to rebuild over the next two years and right the ship

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Who tf is listening to the Fan when the ticket is right there? As long as you understand that Sturm and Jake are the only ones worth listening to about sports.

In reply to shack009 Junior and Donnie have some good thoughts from time to time.

In reply to Ol Jock 99

Ol Jock 99 said:

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Junior and Donnie have some good thoughts from time to time.

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Fair enough. But whoever said we are in good hands with Kidd is crazy.

Im sure they could point out the brilliant tactics he used in the playoffs last year that none of us could see.

Jaden Hardy: 20/3/3/2 in 18 minutes. +22

In reply to shack009

shack009 said:

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Jaden Hardy: 20/3/3/2 in 18 minutes. +22

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So infuriating that Kidd waited so late in the season to play the kid

Also Frank: 3/1/1/1 in 12 minutes and +31. Interesting line haha.

Nesmith, Nembhard, Nwora, Mathurin? None of those are real people. Indiana pulled four guys out of the crown and started them and used a name generator.

In reply to Guitarsoup

Guitarsoup said:

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Nesmith, Nembhard, Nwora, Mathurin? None of those are real people. Indiana pulled four guys out of the crown and started them and used a name generator.

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Correct, we can't really take anything from this game.

I guess only the fact that we aren't tanking as hard as I would like.

So we need to get to 9th place for a better shot at not losing our draft pick…am I interpreting that right?