The M2 Bradley

Tanker123

12:49p, 2/16/24

The Bradley was often viewed to have an inappropriately high silhouette, weapons that are underpowered, and noisy. However, it has redeemed itself in Ukraine. The Ukrainians love the M2. It transports infantrymen, provides good fire support, and has destroyed Russian armor with its TOW missiles.

If I read between the lines, the Russians lack the requisite number of weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. The Russian infantry that are dug in must cringe when a M2 is conducting fire and maneuver on them. I believe the US gave Ukraine close to 200 of them. Practically all the hype was bestowed upon the tanks that were transferred to Ukraine.

How powerful is M2 Bradley? #Shorts - YouTube

CT'97

2:39p, 2/16/24

Lots of anecdotes of Brad's punching holes through T-72's in Iraq with their 25mm chaingun and it's DU AP round. I served with a guy who was a PL on a Brad who experienced it personally. He saw the tank at the same time the gunner did, gunner ranged and engaged as the commands were coming out of his mouth.

He saw splashes behind the tank so assumed his gunner had shot to fast and over shot the target. He ordered reengage and told the gunner to drop he was shooting over. Gunner knows he's engaged correctly but saw the same thing through the site so drops his point of aim and rounds land in front of the tank. PL is now pissed and worried the tank will be engaging them soon. He very loudly and forcefully, in his description, commands the gunner to laze the target and reengage.

At this point the wingman Brad is up on line and observing the tank. Rounds again splashing behind the target with a few flashed off the turret. The wingman, who is his lead scout, comes up on the net and says he thinks the rounds are going through the tank and impacting the berm behind it.

Sure enough, the AP rounds were penetrating straight through the tank from the side and still had enough force going out the other side to send up splashes of hot sand where they were hitting the berm. Turned out the tank was also unmanned.

Trinity Ag

2:48p, 2/16/24

In reply to Tanker123

Tanker123 said:
The Bradley was often viewed to have an inappropriately high silhouette, weapons that are underpowered, and noisy. However, it has redeemed itself in Ukraine. The Ukrainians love the M2. It transports infantrymen, provides good fire support, and has destroyed Russian armor with its TOW missiles.

If I read between the lines, the Russians lack the requisite number of weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. The Russian infantry that are dug in must cringe when a M2 is conducting fire and maneuver on them. I believe the US gave Ukraine close to 200 of them. Practically all the hype was bestowed upon the tanks that were transferred to Ukraine.

How powerful is M2 Bradley? #Shorts - YouTube

My issues with the Bradley are primarily with the fuel tanks, one of which surrounds the turret basket.

When they get penetrated by RPGs or flip from IEDS the fuel tanks rupture and the people inside burn.

Once they start burning (aluminum) they are hard to put out.

Those are not unique issues for armored vehicles. But compared to the M1 design-- which was designed with crew survivability in mind -- the M2 leaves a lot to be desired.

An APC or IFV will never be a tank, but crew survivability should be a bigger design priority, IMO.

Tanker123

3:35p, 2/16/24

CT - I have heard the same about the 25 mm taking out Iraqi tanks.

Trinity - Thanks for the narrative. Never knew about the fuel risk. It reminds me of SFC Alwyn Cashe who was the TC a Bradley in Iraq. In the early evening his Bradley hit a mine. Fuel was everywhere and his uniform was saturated with it. He went into the burning vehicle several times to retrieve several of the soldiers and an Iraqi. He sustained serious burns. SFC Cashe said he did what he did because his soldiers were too young to meet their maker. Ft Sam has a special burn unit. It was there when the last soldier died. Then he closed his eyes for good. Heaven and earth had to be moved for him to be finally awarded the MOH posthumously. It was also a long fight.

Smeghead4761

11:50p, 2/17/24

My first unit in the Army was a mech infantry battalion in Germany in 1997. A lot of the E-6s and above were Gulf War vets. I recall the company Master Gunner telling me once that, even though the manual says to use the AP rounds against APC/IFV targets, they switched to using HE rounds pretty quick. It seems the AP rounds would go right through BMPs, MTLBs, and BTRs without causing much damage inside.

(The fact that Soviet/Russian APCs are actually quite lightly armored contributes to the issue. We were told during IOBC that 7.62 NATO AP rounds will actually penetrate BTRs.)

Tanker123

12:22a, 2/18/24

In reply to Smeghead4761

Smeghead4761 said:
My first unit in the Army was a mech infantry battalion in Germany in 1997. A lot of the E-6s and above were Gulf War vets. I recall the company Master Gunner telling me once that, even though the manual says to use the AP rounds against APC/IFV targets, they switched to using HE rounds pretty quick. It seems the AP rounds would go right through BMPs, MTLBs, and BTRs without causing much damage inside.

(The fact that Soviet/Russian APCs are actually quite lightly armored contributes to the issue. We were told during IOBC that 7.62 NATO AP rounds will actually penetrate BTRs.)

I snicker when I see pictures of BTRs and BMPs. They look like coffins.

CT'97

8:57a, 2/18/24

In reply to Tanker123

Tanker123 said:
Smeghead4761 said:
My first unit in the Army was a mech infantry battalion in Germany in 1997. A lot of the E-6s and above were Gulf War vets. I recall the company Master Gunner telling me once that, even though the manual says to use the AP rounds against APC/IFV targets, they switched to using HE rounds pretty quick. It seems the AP rounds would go right through BMPs, MTLBs, and BTRs without causing much damage inside.

(The fact that Soviet/Russian APCs are actually quite lightly armored contributes to the issue. We were told during IOBC that 7.62 NATO AP rounds will actually penetrate BTRs.)

I snicker when I see pictures of BTRs and BMPs. They look like coffins.

The reason you see Russians riding on top of them and not inside. They would rather have a chance to jump off and run than be trapped inside with little or no armor. They also have horrible doors for getting out of in combat.

Tanker123

10:52a, 2/18/24

Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.

74OA

10:52a, 2/18/24

The continuously upgraded Bradley is still a fine IFV--particularly considering its original design is almost a half-century old--but definitely needs an active protection system for today's battlefield.

M2

Smeghead4761

11:42p, 2/18/24

The Army has been working on a replacement for the Brad for at least a decade now. (It took them forever to work out a replacement for the M113, which is an infinitely simpler vehicle.) The problem they keep running into is that, when they try to put all the weapons, armor, and carrying capacity (a full squad vs the 6 troops in a Brad) that they want, they end up with something almost the size of a tank and in to 50-55 ton range.

And you can't put the fuel tank in the back on an IFV, because that's where the dismounts go. Unless you want to put the fuel in the doors/ramp like the Russians did with the BMP-1

Now, you could go the route the Israelis seem to be going, and just go all in and build your APC/IFV on the same chassis as your tank. But you'd have to re-arrange the standard tank internal layout like the Israelis did with the Merkava to make that work.

74OA

4:55a, 2/19/24

In reply to Smeghead4761

Bradley replacement competition culled down to two. Good general description of some of the upgrades. OMFV

clarythedrill

8:58a, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

Tanker123 said:
Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.

You are forgetting about the two up front. Are/were you a tanker or are you doing alot of googling?

Tanker123

10:05a, 2/19/24

In reply to clarythedrill

clarythedrill said:
Tanker123 said:
Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.
You are forgetting about the two up front. Are/were you a tanker or are you doing alot of googling?

I rode in tanks. Are you googling?

Aggie Therapist

11:50a, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

Tanker123 said:
clarythedrill said:
Tanker123 said:
Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.
You are forgetting about the two up front. Are/were you a tanker or are you doing alot of googling?

I rode in tanks. Are you googling?

I served with clarythedrill in 1st CAV.

He ain't googling. I was an Infantry Platoon Leader and XO of a fully digital mechanized infantry company utilizing the M2A3. My first platoon sergeant enlisted as an 11 Mike. He taught me everything I needed to know about the Infantry Fighting Vehicle. I was surrounded by NCOs with years of experience on that platform courtesy of GWOT. Good times.

Tanker123

12:10p, 2/19/24

In reply to Aggie Therapist

Aggie Therapist said:
Tanker123 said:
clarythedrill said:
Tanker123 said:
Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.
You are forgetting about the two up front. Are/were you a tanker or are you doing alot of googling?

I rode in tanks. Are you googling?

I served with clarythedrill in 1st CAV.

He ain't googling. I was an Infantry Platoon Leader and XO of a fully digital mechanized infantry company utilizing the M2A3. My first platoon sergeant enlisted as an 11 Mike. He taught me everything I needed to know about the Infantry Fighting Vehicle. I was surrounded by NCOs with years of experience on that platform courtesy of GWOT. Good times.

One silly question begets another silly question. My first tour was with the Night Stalkers, then I went to OCS and became a Tank Platoon Leader. I also did logistics, budget, and national disaster planning with a large Alabama NG unit as an AD soldier. I enjoyed my varied career. What kind of therapist are you?

Aggie Therapist

12:30p, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

I've enjoyed my varied career as well!

Graduated with a degree in supply chain management from Mays Business School. Active Duty 2012-2021. Joined a medical unit in the Army Reserve and that's currently my place of duty.

I grew tired of my Soldiers and friends killing themselves so I changed career paths. I'm currently an inpatient therapist working with high acuity patients at a mental health hospital. Currently an LMSW working on my clinical. And at the same time, because of our government is so great, I was offered a full time position at the VA after completing an internship this fall working with Veterans suffering with chronic homelessness, substance abuse and mental health issues. I LOVED that program.

Why is our government so great? Because the offered me the position on December 23rd but there has since been a hold on hiring new hires due to budget concerns!

rilloaggie

12:32p, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

Tanker123 said:
clarythedrill said:
Tanker123 said:
Trinity alluded to the design of the M1 for crew survivability. The fuel tanks are located at the rear of the tank. The 120mm rounds are located at the back of the turret and have blow out panels above the ammo rack. If the ammo blows up, it is designed for the blast to go up. The Russian tanks large rounds are more centralized in the turret which is the reason why the crews have no chance of surviving center mass hits. The only consolation is they will die instantly.

Iraqi M1 Abrams survives direct ATGM Hit on its ammo rack - Blowout panels in action (youtube.com)

740, outstanding and comprehensive article in regard to the M2. Due to the fact the Ukes are having much success with them, I am going to assume the Russians are short on weapons and weapons systems to take out the M2s. Uke mechanized infantry has a significant advantage to the Russian light infantry.
You are forgetting about the two up front. Are/were you a tanker or are you doing alot of googling?

I rode in tanks. Are you googling?

Weird that you act like he needs google in this post when you used him as a subject matter expert when posting about another tank with your old profile.

"This is a composite input from Clarythedrill and myself. He was able to update some information. It has been a long time since I have ridden in tanks."

https://texags.com/forums/63/topics/3311835/replies/62812614

Aggie Therapist

12:33p, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

Oh and the army aviation community is near and dear to my heart due to losing some of my best friends in Blackhawk crashes over the past 4 years. It rocked my world….but that's a conversation for another day.

Tanker123

12:36p, 2/19/24

In reply to Aggie Therapist

Aggie Therapist said:
I've enjoyed my varied career as well!

Graduated with a degree in supply chain management from Mays Business School. Active Duty 2012-2021. Joined a medical unit in the Army Reserve and that's currently my place of duty.

I grew tired of my Soldiers and friends killing themselves so I changed career paths. I'm currently an inpatient therapist working with high acuity patients at a mental health hospital. Currently an LMSW working on my clinical. And at the same time, because of our government is so great, I was offered a full time position at the VA after completing an internship this fall working with Veterans suffering with chronic homelessness, substance abuse and mental health issues. I LOVED that program.

Why is our government so great? Because the offered me the position on December 23rd but there has since been a hold on hiring new hires due to budget concerns!

Cool! We need passionate people working for the VA. I assume you will have a nice GS level. I had severe PTSD when I retired from the Army. However, I healed myself and subsequently wrote a PTSD healing book that has helped many as my self imposed volunteer work to help people. Would you like to read it and corroborate? It is free to you. One thumbs up is people can relate to the book. If I respond to you again, I will edit and add to this post. I have a strict limit of postings in a day.

It's unfortunate that a vast majority of people don't walk away from helicopter crashes. The risk goes up when the training standards and missions go up.

My email is Ajourneyofhealingptsd@gmail.com. Please don't share it with anyone due to sensitive information.

I would like to give you my perspective to healing. I also have a comprehensive approach. There is no random bull***** The book has helped many people just by reading it. I did mentor and coach a couple people over a few months. I have helped veterans the VA could not. Sometimes it takes a week for people to improve dramatically because the book organizes what people already know. Usually people heal 160 degrees in a few months. I hope that I can help you help veterans with PTSD. Our corroboration is primarily giving you the book and whatever evolves.

However, I can't help everyone because I can't always mitigate the trauma. My wife is a prime example. We lost an adult daughter a couple years ago, and I can't mitigate that trauma unfortunately. The best I can do is show her my love for her and make life comfortable.

I wrote the book several years ago, and it's not my best writing because my objective was to create a product ASAP. I might do a large edit and try to monetize it in the future, but that entails lots of work and concentration in an already busy life. My reservoir of energy is low right now.

Aggie Therapist

1:09p, 2/19/24

In reply to Tanker123

I would love to read it! As far as working together, definitely in the future. New job, buying our first house, 3rd kid on the way and Army…..crazy times.

But yes I would like a copy on whatever medium is easiest.

Tanker123

11:01a, 2/20/24

In reply to Aggie Therapist

Aggie Therapist said:
I would love to read it! As far as working together, definitely in the future. New job, buying our first house, 3rd kid on the way and Army…..crazy times.

But yes I would like a copy on whatever medium is easiest.

Email me: ajourneyofhealingptsd@gmail.com. I can send you the digits. All I want is a reply - I got it, thanks. Let's see if we can help more veterans and civilians with PTSD. I have helped people the VA could not.