I think Schlossnagle got exactly what he wanted out of the game. A win first and foremost. But he also got to see a lot of guys in game action and has a better idea who he can use down the road in tournament action. A lot of them held up well. Other than the 1st and 8th we played really well.
7:24a, 4/24/24
Definitely a lot of valuable innings for guys we haven't seen much. It's just wild to me how hard it is for some of these guys to just throw a strike. It's not just this year, obviously we were much worse last year. We had a guy throw 7 straight balls, throw a strike, then walk a guy tonight. I realize he hasn't thrown much at all but you're a division 1 pitcher. The plate is the same size it has been since you started throwing.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
7:41a, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
Throwing strikes is hard.
Thisguy1 said:
Definitely a lot of valuable innings for guys we haven't seen much. It's just wild to me how hard it is for some of these guys to just throw a strike. It's not just this year, obviously we were much worse last year. We had a guy throw 7 straight balls, throw a strike, then walk a guy tonight. I realize he hasn't thrown much at all but you're a division 1 pitcher. The plate is the same size it has been since you started throwing.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
Throwing strikes is hard.
7:59a, 4/24/24
In reply to t - cam
Throwing strikes that don't get crushed is hard.
t - cam said:Thisguy1 said:
Definitely a lot of valuable innings for guys we haven't seen much. It's just wild to me how hard it is for some of these guys to just throw a strike. It's not just this year, obviously we were much worse last year. We had a guy throw 7 straight balls, throw a strike, then walk a guy tonight. I realize he hasn't thrown much at all but you're a division 1 pitcher. The plate is the same size it has been since you started throwing.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
Throwing strikes is hard.
Throwing strikes that don't get crushed is hard.
8:13a, 4/24/24
In reply to t - cam
It really isn't that hard though. I pitched in college. If you didn't throw strikes you didn't pitch. And I understand that may be part of why they aren't throwing much.
But that was more to my point. Things have changed in the training realm where it's all just velocity velocity velocity and worry about the rest later.
I was working a camp when I got done playing and was trying to work with a 12-13 or so year old kid on throwing strikes. A Twelve coach was with me and he flat told me I'd be fired if I did that coaching for them. All they wanted was to light the radar gun up. Heck, the owner of the club I coached for had a son that was 17-18. He'd put him in one inning a weekend and told him to just throw it as hard as he could. Couldn't care less where it went. And I can't really blame them. At that age the scouts want to see a big number. They'll worry about the location later.
But that was more to my point. Things have changed in the training realm where it's all just velocity velocity velocity and worry about the rest later.
I was working a camp when I got done playing and was trying to work with a 12-13 or so year old kid on throwing strikes. A Twelve coach was with me and he flat told me I'd be fired if I did that coaching for them. All they wanted was to light the radar gun up. Heck, the owner of the club I coached for had a son that was 17-18. He'd put him in one inning a weekend and told him to just throw it as hard as he could. Couldn't care less where it went. And I can't really blame them. At that age the scouts want to see a big number. They'll worry about the location later.
8:15a, 4/24/24
In reply to Turf96
Correction: only 1 gender complains about getting laid.
Turf96 said:
Back in 89 this school didn't clutch their pearls like these snowflakes. Wonder what has changed?
****in' algore & that damn Internet he created.
Some of you fans need to lighten up. I'm convinced some of you could be getting laid and still complaining. Enjoy the ride folks. Enjoy the ride.
Correction: only 1 gender complains about getting laid.
Ronnie '88
8:26a, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
Yes. Antolick was throwing strikes. Mostly fastballs over the middle of the plate. If you take away the innings by him and Johnson our pitching was OK, and those guys won't be seeing any weekend action this year.
Good point that Schloss got the two things he wanted out of the game. But he didn't look very happy in the dugout the last couple of innings.
Thisguy1 said:
It really isn't that hard though. I pitched in college. If you didn't throw strikes you didn't pitch. And I understand that may be part of why they aren't throwing much.
But that was more to my point. Things have changed in the training realm where it's all just velocity velocity velocity and worry about the rest later.
I was working a camp when I got done playing and was trying to work with a 12-13 or so year old kid on throwing strikes. A Twelve coach was with me and he flat told me I'd be fired if I did that coaching for them. All they wanted was to light the radar gun up. Heck, the owner of the club I coached for had a son that was 17-18. He'd put him in one inning a weekend and told him to just throw it as hard as he could. Couldn't care less where it went. And I can't really blame them. At that age the scouts want to see a big number. They'll worry about the location later.
Yes. Antolick was throwing strikes. Mostly fastballs over the middle of the plate. If you take away the innings by him and Johnson our pitching was OK, and those guys won't be seeing any weekend action this year.
Good point that Schloss got the two things he wanted out of the game. But he didn't look very happy in the dugout the last couple of innings.
8:28a, 4/24/24
In reply to Sterling82
This. I remember the first time I threw to college hitters. It was a live BP type thing and all we could throw was a fastball, so it was something where he wanted us to work on location to get guys out. It was just BB after BB after BB and he came out and asked, "are you going to throw anything down in the zone or just keep serving up cookies?" And my head was spinning so much I wasn't even paying attention to that small of a detail. I was just inside/outside but everything was just belt high mostly because I'd been able to get away with that in HS. Not in college.
So I definitely get it with these young guys that haven't thrown. Antolick got hit, but he only walked one guy. He just got beat around a little bit. It's easier to tell a guy like that to locate better in the zone than to tell a guy to get in the zone before anything else.
Sterling82 said:t - cam said:Thisguy1 said:
Definitely a lot of valuable innings for guys we haven't seen much. It's just wild to me how hard it is for some of these guys to just throw a strike. It's not just this year, obviously we were much worse last year. We had a guy throw 7 straight balls, throw a strike, then walk a guy tonight. I realize he hasn't thrown much at all but you're a division 1 pitcher. The plate is the same size it has been since you started throwing.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
Throwing strikes is hard.
Throwing strikes that don't get crushed is hard.
This. I remember the first time I threw to college hitters. It was a live BP type thing and all we could throw was a fastball, so it was something where he wanted us to work on location to get guys out. It was just BB after BB after BB and he came out and asked, "are you going to throw anything down in the zone or just keep serving up cookies?" And my head was spinning so much I wasn't even paying attention to that small of a detail. I was just inside/outside but everything was just belt high mostly because I'd been able to get away with that in HS. Not in college.
So I definitely get it with these young guys that haven't thrown. Antolick got hit, but he only walked one guy. He just got beat around a little bit. It's easier to tell a guy like that to locate better in the zone than to tell a guy to get in the zone before anything else.
8:44a, 4/24/24
It is also mental with these guys, you start throwing balls and start "aiming" the ball which changes up your form just a little bit so you miss the strike zone by a little bit. It becomes a mental battle of the stress of needing to throw a strike vs calming yourself down a bit to get back in natural form. For me throwing some additional off speed pitches helped since not a lot of hitters are looking for them when the hitter is up in the count. Once you get them swinging a few times the mental block starts to fade and you get back to normal. Or your offspeed stuff is off that day and a hitter hits one into the parking lot.
Spotting the ball is not as easy as it looks either, worse these days since they are teaching the kids to throw harder than being able to hit the corners on every throw.
I will also say I was never a fastball pitcher, I think max I ever hit was 85. I had what I would call a subpar curveball, decent change up, and a pretty wicked splitfinger/forkball that I could control.
Spotting the ball is not as easy as it looks either, worse these days since they are teaching the kids to throw harder than being able to hit the corners on every throw.
I will also say I was never a fastball pitcher, I think max I ever hit was 85. I had what I would call a subpar curveball, decent change up, and a pretty wicked splitfinger/forkball that I could control.
8:58a, 4/24/24
The boys might have fallen in love for the first time in their lives last night. My son is in the maroon. They had a blast. Late night driving back to Katy though. Getting up for school this more was a little bit of a challenge, but well worth it.
9:09a, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
I stress the opposite to my own son, not that it matters.
Throw strikes, velo will come later (hell he is 9), he doesn't pitch nearly as hard as he can throw across the diamond, but I'll be damned if he doesn't throw strikes 95% of the time.
Throw strikes, velo will come later (hell he is 9), he doesn't pitch nearly as hard as he can throw across the diamond, but I'll be damned if he doesn't throw strikes 95% of the time.
9:48a, 4/24/24
In reply to trouble
Don't have to get mad if you stay mad look!!
Just an old dad who raise 3 Ags. Inherited 2 more. GIG’EM
10:25a, 4/24/24
In reply to trouble
I will say, I guess I'm lucky we went ahead and headed home. My daughter was dragging to school this morning, and it would have been much worse getting home an extra 1.5 hrs later.
Listen here, I don't do this often and am ignorant. Although I wish I lived in CS and could come all the time.trouble said:AgEng06 said:
The softball game just ended in a 12-2 run rule. I don't guess there's a way I can get into the baseball game now, huh?
Ain't nobody checking tickets in the 5th
I will say, I guess I'm lucky we went ahead and headed home. My daughter was dragging to school this morning, and it would have been much worse getting home an extra 1.5 hrs later.
10:26a, 4/24/24
In reply to AgEng06
Between living here and homeschooling, I'm extra lucky that I get to bring the boys to baseball so often.
10:28a, 4/24/24
In reply to trouble
100%. We have a good thing going where we live currently (and my in-laws live in our guest house), but once the kids are out of high school we'll be selling this place and moving back to the CS area.
12:41p, 4/24/24
In reply to AgEng06
We left at the start of the 8th and got home at 10:45pm. I hear you, but we had fun.
I was at the airport at 6am this morning so my wife had to deal with the tired child.
AgEng06 said:Listen here, I don't do this often and am ignorant. Although I wish I lived in CS and could come all the time.trouble said:AgEng06 said:
The softball game just ended in a 12-2 run rule. I don't guess there's a way I can get into the baseball game now, huh?
Ain't nobody checking tickets in the 5th
I will say, I guess I'm lucky we went ahead and headed home. My daughter was dragging to school this morning, and it would have been much worse getting home an extra 1.5 hrs later.
We left at the start of the 8th and got home at 10:45pm. I hear you, but we had fun.
I was at the airport at 6am this morning so my wife had to deal with the tired child.
1:24p, 4/24/24
In reply to trouble
That we threw the end of the bench and still had to use Rudis and Ash even though we scored a lot of runs?!?!
Probably
Send me a text and I'll send you some photos.
trouble said:
Oh so it's your fault
That we threw the end of the bench and still had to use Rudis and Ash even though we scored a lot of runs?!?!
Probably
Send me a text and I'll send you some photos.
3:16p, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40007270/mlb-pitching-injuries-tommy-john-spike-players-weigh-in
This is a good article talking about some of this. MLB pitchers citing people chasing velocity (and analytics) as a reason for the rise in pitcher injuries.Thisguy1 said:
Definitely a lot of valuable innings for guys we haven't seen much. It's just wild to me how hard it is for some of these guys to just throw a strike. It's not just this year, obviously we were much worse last year. We had a guy throw 7 straight balls, throw a strike, then walk a guy tonight. I realize he hasn't thrown much at all but you're a division 1 pitcher. The plate is the same size it has been since you started throwing.
A lot has changed in just the 10-15 years since I've played but it seems like this always goes in cycles. I've heard, "find a guy that throws strikes and we can teach him velocity" and I've heard, "you can't teach velocity so find a guy that throws hard and we'll teach him to throw strikes." Seems like we're in the find velocity era and I don't see it coming back soon unless these coaches get tired of guys that throw hard but can't find the zone. I think Schloss even said something like these kids are just trained to throw it as hard as they can into a net, but that doesn't win college baseball games. Our most valuable arm is a guy who throws 88-90 and locates. The guy that excites the scouts the most is one who throws 100 with run, has an electric slider, but wasn't able to find the zone for two years. Thankfully he has this year and has dominated, but I still kind of hold my breath every outing until I see it happen.
It's hard to really be upset with it because of the jump from last year to this year. I'm probably just finding something to be mad at.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40007270/mlb-pitching-injuries-tommy-john-spike-players-weigh-in
3:50p, 4/24/24
In reply to BohunkAg
There's probably something to that, but the training and biomechanics advancing has also helped things. I had Tommy John surgery in college. My Dr told me it's a medical miracle you don't tear your elbow every time you throw a baseball. It's a violent move that your body is not built to make. You add in things like Driveline where you're starting to change the weights of balls and it's no surprise injuries are rising with velocity the way they're having to train to achieve it.
Kids playing baseball 365 days a year instead of multiple sports probably doesn't help things either. On top of that they're practicing twice a week, going to lessons once or twice a week, they just don't stop anymore. I had to start telling parents the lesson costs X amount. Some may be 30 minutes, some 45, some 20. I don't need you warming up before the lesson because there's zero need to throw a 30-45 minute bullpen and I don't as a coach want to be trying to stretch a pen out just to appease the parent at the expense of the kid. Instead, let me teach you how to stretch and warm up with a purpose instead of you just walking out the car and throwing with dad and saying you're ready. You can get more out of throwing flatgrounds than just throwing a kid on the mound as soon as they're hot, but parents don't want to hear that. But they're less stress on the arm and the kid learns how his body works without introducing a slope into it.
This is opening up an entirely different wormhole that I could talk forever about. If someone told me they could get me 5 more mph I would have done it without any questions, so I can't blame the kids at all.
Kids playing baseball 365 days a year instead of multiple sports probably doesn't help things either. On top of that they're practicing twice a week, going to lessons once or twice a week, they just don't stop anymore. I had to start telling parents the lesson costs X amount. Some may be 30 minutes, some 45, some 20. I don't need you warming up before the lesson because there's zero need to throw a 30-45 minute bullpen and I don't as a coach want to be trying to stretch a pen out just to appease the parent at the expense of the kid. Instead, let me teach you how to stretch and warm up with a purpose instead of you just walking out the car and throwing with dad and saying you're ready. You can get more out of throwing flatgrounds than just throwing a kid on the mound as soon as they're hot, but parents don't want to hear that. But they're less stress on the arm and the kid learns how his body works without introducing a slope into it.
This is opening up an entirely different wormhole that I could talk forever about. If someone told me they could get me 5 more mph I would have done it without any questions, so I can't blame the kids at all.
3:55p, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
Points taken. I've got a freshman that just finished up his JV season last night so all of this is in the forefront of our minds and has been for the last few years.
4:36p, 4/24/24
"But he didn't look very happy in the dugout the last couple of innings."
I freaking love it ... and the players respond to him the way they should.
On a lighter note, one of my daughters (Class of '27) friends got his first hit as a college player and it was HR in the 8th - he had been 0-7 until that at bat. Then he struck out to end the game. Kind of weird rooting for a kid against the Ags but hey, it's what we do. Have another kid I know very well coming in for Tarleton next week to play and he is pumped to get a chance to play at Olson against #1. He is one of Tarleton's best hitters -- I will be rooting for him to have a great game at the plate, in the field AND rooting for the Ags to beat their ass.
I freaking love it ... and the players respond to him the way they should.
On a lighter note, one of my daughters (Class of '27) friends got his first hit as a college player and it was HR in the 8th - he had been 0-7 until that at bat. Then he struck out to end the game. Kind of weird rooting for a kid against the Ags but hey, it's what we do. Have another kid I know very well coming in for Tarleton next week to play and he is pumped to get a chance to play at Olson against #1. He is one of Tarleton's best hitters -- I will be rooting for him to have a great game at the plate, in the field AND rooting for the Ags to beat their ass.
5:00p, 4/24/24
In reply to TXPremiumBoy
I was stoked for that kid to hit a dinger. I was thinking it was his first college at bat, but sounds like it was his first hit (and 0-7 couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 previous ABs). That was cool (even at our expense).TXPremiumBoy said:
"But he didn't look very happy in the dugout the last couple of innings."
I freaking love it ... and the players respond to him the way they should.
On a lighter note, one of my daughters (Class of '27) friends got his first hit as a college player and it was HR in the 8th - he had been 0-7 until that at bat. Then he struck out to end the game. Kind of weird rooting for a kid against the Ags but hey, it's what we do. Have another kid I know very well coming in for Tarleton next week to play and he is pumped to get a chance to play at Olson against #1. He is one of Tarleton's best hitters -- I will be rooting for him to have a great game at the plate, in the field AND rooting for the Ags to beat their ass.
6:07p, 4/24/24
Pretty cool to see over 2k replies in a mid week baseball thread. Solid traffic (content notwithstanding)
6:21p, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
You should make a thread discussing pitch training and how's its changed. Bet it would be a really interesting read with input from others on here.
6:59p, 4/24/24
In reply to Killzone3abc
Ha, I promise it would be pretty boring. I'm pretty old school. Played for a really old school coach at my first stop then a legend that meshed the two. I'm not a fan of all these analytics of spin rates and launch angles all that but I definitely see the benefit of it all. It just wasn't a thing 10-15 years ago when I played. For us it was holding it a certain way makes the ball move a little more. The only numbers we worried about was how to make that 90 into a 92. I know little about all of this new tech that's being used.
I do think it would have been pretty cool to see how they could have improved on what I was doing. I doubt they could have made me any taller which was my biggest problem!
I do think it would have been pretty cool to see how they could have improved on what I was doing. I doubt they could have made me any taller which was my biggest problem!
8:16p, 4/24/24
In reply to txaggie02
That's a core memory.
Sweet boys. They dont stay small forever, but those smiles do. Congrats dad.txaggie02 said:
The boys might have fallen in love for the first time in their lives last night. My son is in the maroon. They had a blast. Late night driving back to Katy though. Getting up for school this more was a little bit of a challenge, but well worth it.
That's a core memory.
10:54p, 4/24/24
In reply to Thisguy1
The analytics aren't the problem. You had spin rates back then, they just didn't have the means to measure it. When they would talk about how a pitchers fastball would jump or rise (it physically can't), that was a product of them having a high spin rate. They used the analytics to determine what pitches a pitcher should throw and what location it will work best. The velocity training is a completely different issue. If it's done under the direction of understanding the kinetic chain of pitching and trying to improve that, it creates a healthier pitching mechanics and velocity is just a secondary byproduct of that. Programs just geared towards creating velocity are where there can be problems. Implementing these program to rapidly without proper, individual video analysis is a recipe for hurting arms. Using my son as an example, he is anything but the prototypical professional pitching prospect. He's barely touching 6' and has small hands, yet he generates incredible spin rates. I scratch my head trying to figure out how he does. In college, they wanted him pitching down in the zone, yet with his spin rates, when he got to pro ball, they analyzed he'd be more effective up in the zone with his fastball, and he is.Thisguy1 said:
Ha, I promise it would be pretty boring. I'm pretty old school. Played for a really old school coach at my first stop then a legend that meshed the two. I'm not a fan of all these analytics of spin rates and launch angles all that but I definitely see the benefit of it all. It just wasn't a thing 10-15 years ago when I played. For us it was holding it a certain way makes the ball move a little more. The only numbers we worried about was how to make that 90 into a 92. I know little about all of this new tech that's being used.
I do think it would have been pretty cool to see how they could have improved on what I was doing. I doubt they could have made me any taller which was my biggest problem!