Foreign Substance - Georgia Pitcher's Glove - Page 2

Sandman98

1:01p, 4/28/24

W said:
Schloss is not afraid to have an opposing pitcher's glove checked...

but he knows to wait until the SR round to do that

This is true. And checking someone in the moment is usually because he's seen or heard evidence. Georgia will likely get checked in the future at a time that matters.

I just don't think any of them want people snooping around all of the bullpens and checking all the gloves because of this episode.

dermdoc

1:02p, 4/28/24

In reply to Sean98

Sean98 said:
Different circles maybe. I saw it start to happen when I was around 13. Used it a little myself in some swampy late summer games by around 14 or 15. Didn't feel like it was a crazy huge advantage back then (just rosin or pine tar not today's outer space materials) but definitely the difference between losing a breaking ball out of the back of my hand vs. keeping it around the plate. We weren't as focused on spin rates because we didn't have all the analytics to back it up so I don't think it was as prevalent, particularly with fastball guys. Heavy breaking ball guys seemed to use it more then.

This would have been around 1990, so not exactly a new thing.

How many times has a pitcher struck out 6 of our guys in a row? Especially this guy?

The Georgia coaching staff was sketchy all weekend in my opinion. Schloss had to chase their photographer away from behind home plate before the game. Filming our pitcher.

And they pitched 2 of their guys into the ground.

Yeah, they cheated. And I get it but we should have checked the guy's glove after the the first 2-3 strikeouts.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

HoustonAg2106

1:35p, 4/28/24

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:
Sean98 said:
Different circles maybe. I saw it start to happen when I was around 13. Used it a little myself in some swampy late summer games by around 14 or 15. Didn't feel like it was a crazy huge advantage back then (just rosin or pine tar not today's outer space materials) but definitely the difference between losing a breaking ball out of the back of my hand vs. keeping it around the plate. We weren't as focused on spin rates because we didn't have all the analytics to back it up so I don't think it was as prevalent, particularly with fastball guys. Heavy breaking ball guys seemed to use it more then.

This would have been around 1990, so not exactly a new thing.

How many times has a pitcher struck out 6 of our guys in a row? Especially this guy?

The Georgia coaching staff was sketchy all weekend in my opinion. Schloss had to chase their photographer away from behind home plate before the game. Filming our pitcher.

And they pitched 2 of their guys into the ground.

Yeah, they cheated. And I get it but we should have checked the guy's glove after the the first 2-3 strikeouts.

Umpire was helping that guy out a lot too

missinAggieland

1:41p, 4/28/24

One thing I think we can say confidently, the next team they face will not challenge the foreign substance use by pitchers.

AggieBB

1:59p, 4/28/24

In reply to Sean98

Sean98 said:
TheCurl84 said:
Sandman98 said:
FTAG 2000 said:
Get em Schloss!

Uh. There isn't a coach in America that wants to bring attention to this.

Why not?
Because our staff likely uses something too. Almost every pitcher in the last 100 years has used something for grip. And before that the balls were basically just bean bags that you couldn't hit hard anyway. Sunscreen and rosin is the most popular substance. More recently spider tack has become the thing.

The real debate in bullpens isn't whether using "something" is ok, most agree it is. But there's a point where they think one thing is ok and the next thing is too much. It's also a matter of how and where you use it. Discretion goes a long way. Big slab on your arm or neck? Hell no. Little pocket in between the fingers of your glove? No worries.

Spider tack didn't exist in my days but guys that I trust tell me it's unfair the grip it gives you. Quote from an athletic article that makes my point better than I can.

Quote:
Pitchers use tacky substances to enhance grip, in theory helping ensure the safety of hitters. But as one source put it, "if you're getting a 3,000 rpm cutter, you've left grip in the (rear-view) mirror a long time ago." And it's not just a handful of pitchers seeking such advantages. The use of illegal substances has become so rampant, a coach with experience in several major-league organizations told The Athletic in November, "Almost everyone is using something." A player-development executive said the benefits for pitchers are "better than steroids."

And it goes beyond grip substances to catchers using the buckles on their shin guards to cut balls for pitchers, etc. I played with a catcher in a summer league, played against this same kid in another league... Always amazed at the movement their pitchers had when they didn't seem to have top flight arms. Eventually had the conversation with him when he asked about my grip, where a little scuff might help, etc. There's a 1000 ways to make a ball move.

Which is so weird to me. I pitched in college (mid 90's) and never wanted anything on my hands except maybe rosin. I was a two way player so I hit as well and used pine tar, but I did NOT want anything sticky on my hand when I was pitching. Kinda makes me wonder if I was limiting my success now.

TAMU1990

2:02p, 4/28/24

Someone posted this on the premium board

Sean98

2:09p, 4/28/24

In reply to AggieBB

You were.

AggieBB

2:38p, 4/28/24

In reply to Sean98

Yeah…

AggieBand2004

2:40p, 4/28/24

In reply to TAMU1990

TAMU1990 said:
Someone posted this on the premium board

Umps in the field should have seen that

dermdoc

2:46p, 4/28/24

In reply to AggieBand2004

AggieBand2004 said:
TAMU1990 said:
Someone posted this on the premium board

Umps in the field should have seen that

Agree.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

trouble

2:55p, 4/28/24

In reply to AggieBand2004

Brandon Cooper would have had the best angle and we all learned on Friday that he's blind.

Third base ump for that game was fantastic in the early game in the bucket but he's a former pitcher sooooooo......

Gyles Marrett

2:57p, 4/28/24

And here it is… pic.twitter.com/IawRZUsfJW https://t.co/1lY3hRtnen
— Barstool Texas A&M (@BarstoolTexasAM) April 28, 2024

SQ83

2:58p, 4/28/24

Sorry if this has already been posted, but what's the consequence to a pitcher who's caught at this?
Removal from the game? Suspension for x number of future games?
If a team is caught more than once in a game, are there any chances of them forfeiting the game?

Rough! Tough! Real stuff!

TexAgs23

3:53p, 4/28/24

In reply to Gyles Marrett

Gyles Marrett said:
And here it is… pic.twitter.com/IawRZUsfJW https://t.co/1lY3hRtnen
— Barstool Texas A&M (@BarstoolTexasAM) April 28, 2024

Sketchy AF

themissinglink

4:13p, 4/28/24

In reply to SQ83

SQ83 said:
Sorry if this has already been posted, but what's the consequence to a pitcher who's caught at this?
Removal from the game? Suspension for x number of future games?
If a team is caught more than once in a game, are there any chances of them forfeiting the game?

Caught in game, ejected and miss the next 4. SEC, not NCAA, rule I believe.

All this commotion pretty much guarantees he'll get checked next time he pitches in a high leverage situation.

Need to get someone in section 12 to have a video feed of the opponent bullpen so TexAgs sleuths can analyze every frame during the game so we can get some cheaters ejected.

RevrndAg79

4:44p, 4/28/24

An interesting thread. I know that when it comes to competition, the search for a competitive edge, legal or not, has always taken place.

But if it is that common, then why continue to hide it? An illegal edge that is unenforced or ignored has become, in effect, a legal edge. So, limit the rules to just the state of the game itself - having a pitch clock, use of a double bag at first, setting rules for where players can line up in a "shift," and the like. Then, let pitchers find their favorite grip enhancement substance (or even the old "spit ball" type of substances that effect a ball's flight), but also let batters use performance enhancing drugs and juice up their bats.

Of course, someone will ultimately pay the greatest price - an enhanced spin rate 95+ thrown ball will be batted back as a120 mile an hour velocity, hit right back at the mound and hit a pitcher. If he's lucky, it will just break a limb. If he is unlucky, a head shot will kill him.

Either rules mean something and have a purpose, or they do not. If the quality of competition regardless of means is more important than guaranteeing some form of fairness and safety, then open it up for both pitchers and batters. If natural ability or learned techniques are to mean more than chemical substances and performance enhancing drugs; or lowering the risk of someone eventually paying too high a price is important - then random checks and random drug testing may be required to quell the temptation to seek that "edge."

TAMU1990

5:00p, 4/28/24

In reply to RevrndAg79

RevrndAg79 said:
An interesting thread. I know that when it comes to competition, the search for a competitive edge, legal or not, has always taken place.

But if it is that common, then why continue to hide it? An illegal edge that is unenforced or ignored has become, in effect, a legal edge. So, limit the rules to just the state of the game itself - having a pitch clock, use of a double bag at first, setting rules for where players can line up in a "shift," and the like. Then, let pitchers find their favorite grip enhancement substance (or even the old "spit ball" type of substances that effect a ball's flight), but also let batters use performance enhancing drugs and juice up their bats.

Of course, someone will ultimately pay the greatest price - an enhanced spin rate 95+ thrown ball will be batted back as a120 mile an hour velocity, hit right back at the mound and hit a pitcher. If he's lucky, it will just break a limb. If he is unlucky, a head shot will kill him.

Either rules mean something and have a purpose, or they do not. If the quality of competition regardless of means is more important than guaranteeing some form of fairness and safety, then open it up for both pitchers and batters. If natural ability or learned techniques are to mean more than chemical substances and performance enhancing drugs; or lowering the risk of someone eventually paying too high a price is important - then random checks and random drug testing may be required to quell the temptation to seek that "edge."

Maybe the shift should be banned, or at least follow the MLB rule.

dermdoc

5:08p, 4/28/24

In reply to TAMU1990

TAMU1990 said:
RevrndAg79 said:
An interesting thread. I know that when it comes to competition, the search for a competitive edge, legal or not, has always taken place.

But if it is that common, then why continue to hide it? An illegal edge that is unenforced or ignored has become, in effect, a legal edge. So, limit the rules to just the state of the game itself - having a pitch clock, use of a double bag at first, setting rules for where players can line up in a "shift," and the like. Then, let pitchers find their favorite grip enhancement substance (or even the old "spit ball" type of substances that effect a ball's flight), but also let batters use performance enhancing drugs and juice up their bats.

Of course, someone will ultimately pay the greatest price - an enhanced spin rate 95+ thrown ball will be batted back as a120 mile an hour velocity, hit right back at the mound and hit a pitcher. If he's lucky, it will just break a limb. If he is unlucky, a head shot will kill him.

Either rules mean something and have a purpose, or they do not. If the quality of competition regardless of means is more important than guaranteeing some form of fairness and safety, then open it up for both pitchers and batters. If natural ability or learned techniques are to mean more than chemical substances and performance enhancing drugs; or lowering the risk of someone eventually paying too high a price is important - then random checks and random drug testing may be required to quell the temptation to seek that "edge."

Maybe the shift should be banned, or at least follow the MLB rule.

No. You should be able to place your defensive players wherever you want to. MLB changed it because they want more offense and runs. College baseball has plenty of both even with the shift.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

Maroon Flash

5:10p, 4/28/24

In reply to dermdoc

From another site"quote:
I could provide some insight here as someone who threw at a few different levels, including pro ball, before substances were illegal and cracked down on. Looks like he is applying a pine tar or spider tack to a lace on his glove. With a black glove it makes it much easier to hide it on the exterior and thus easier to access seamlessly during an outing. If you have a lighter color glove you need to hide it inside of the glove under the folds where the pocket meets the main body. The fact that he has his fingers pinched together at the end kinda seals the deal for me on there being tack applied. Not an aggie or a bulldog, and I don't even think it's that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Looks like he got away with one, good for him. Probably should be checked next time and it will all blow over. Also, if he did do it, it would add 300+ rpm to his fastball which takes it from good to elite or elite to unhittable at the college level."

AggieBand2004

5:17p, 4/28/24

"Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things" - obviously not a fan who is aware of conference standings, postseason seedings, etc.
If we end the regular season one game shy of a regular season title, a much more favorable tourney pairing, etc. then this WAS a big deal in the grand scheme of things

Mark Fairchild

5:21p, 4/28/24

In reply to AggieBand2004

Absolutely! In the SEC, everything is razor thin, and this possibly could turn out to be a pretty big deal. Hope it doesn't.

Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70

The Marksman

5:33p, 4/28/24

I believe that the Houston Astros might be interested in drafting this pitcher now

v1rotate92

5:41p, 4/28/24

definitely suspect. He completely shutdown our best hitters in the last couple innings

Slick

dermdoc

5:48p, 4/28/24

There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

VegasAg86

5:52p, 4/28/24

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:
There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

It didn't seem to help.

I can't imagine 45 was the only one doing it.

AggieBB

6:00p, 4/28/24

In reply to VegasAg86

VegasAg86 said:
dermdoc said:
There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

It didn't seem to help.

I can't imagine 45 was the only one doing it.

The starter of game two yesterday for them absolutely shoved. We only scored two runs off of him.

VegasAg86

6:04p, 4/28/24

In reply to AggieBB

AggieBB said:
VegasAg86 said:
dermdoc said:
There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

It didn't seem to help.

I can't imagine 45 was the only one doing it.

The starter of game two yesterday for them absolutely shoved. We only scored two runs off of him.

LOL at me. I read that as game 2 of the series, not day. You're right, the starter in the second game yesterday did well.

Like I said, I can't imagine the closer was the only one that did it.

Atreides Ornithopter

6:30p, 4/28/24

So do teams lose the first two to us and then are forced to cheat to win game 3?

Rongagin71

6:50p, 4/28/24

In reply to Atreides Ornithopter

It's elementary, Dear Watson.
Or maybe it's universitary.

Sandman98

7:39p, 4/28/24

In reply to VegasAg86

VegasAg86 said:
AggieBB said:
VegasAg86 said:
dermdoc said:
There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

It didn't seem to help.

I can't imagine 45 was the only one doing it.

The starter of game two yesterday for them absolutely shoved. We only scored two runs off of him.

LOL at me. I read that as game 2 of the series, not day. You're right, the starter in the second game yesterday did well.

Like I said, I can't imagine the closer was the only one that did it.

And don't forget that he's a 23 year old grad transfer. He didn't decide to get a better grip for the first time yesterday. His buddies at James Madison know how to do it, too.

SMM48

8:06p, 4/28/24

Yall do know. There is only one person on this thread that caught 3 cy young award winners right??

GrapevineAg

8:23p, 4/28/24

imho, you cheat when you doubt you can win straight-up. In a way, it's a compliment that Georgia was cheating - they know we're better than them.

Charlie 31

8:27p, 4/28/24

reddit: "Did Georgia RHP Christian Mracna use an illegal foreign substance in game two of the doubleheader against Texas A&M? "

Muktheduck

10:38p, 4/28/24

In reply to dermdoc

dermdoc said:
There is now some chatter that the starter of game two yesterday was doing it also.

Would explain why we couldn't touch what looked like a mediocre slider

jah003

7:50a, 4/29/24

04/11/24 vs Missouri
04/20/24 vs Ole Miss
04/23/24 vs Clemson
04/27/24 vs Texas A&M@SECbaseball @NCAABaseball How long are you going to let Christian Mracna cheat? @rcb05 @BarstoolTexasAM @R_Brauninger @GregSankey @SECOfficiating @KendallRogers pic.twitter.com/ct1oQ0pqER
— Fan (@A88795232) April 28, 2024