In reply to 94chem
So basically you're just mad at the people who haven't gotten the vaccine. Just say that. No need to make up BS about them wanting another lockdown.
10:15a, 6/26/21
In reply to 94chem
weird you would bring that up, seeing as it was multiple VACCINATED players that tested positive leading to their forfeiture.94chem said:
Maybe not, but NC State feels pretty locked down right now. They really showed Big Brother, didn't they?
10:17a, 6/26/21
In reply to 94chem
I'm pretty sure you don't have the slightest idea how those young men and coaches feel right now or for that matter for the rest of their lives. Maybe you should take a step back and inhale before you make anymore sweeping judgments about something you know nothing about.
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
10:30a, 6/26/21
In reply to 94chem
I'm pro vaccine, but what NC St decision showed was the stupidity of PCR testing, especially for those immune, and the atrocious decision making that's plagued this whole thing.
94chem said:harge57 said:94chem said:
When the unvaxxed get the next lockdown they desperately want, this board will be hopping again. Much like certain politicians, they love being the powerless opposition so they can do all of the complaining and bear no responsibility.
You seriously think there is a chance of another lock down?
Maybe not, but NC State feels pretty locked down right now. They really showed Big Brother, didn't they?
I'm pro vaccine, but what NC St decision showed was the stupidity of PCR testing, especially for those immune, and the atrocious decision making that's plagued this whole thing.
10:33a, 6/26/21
In reply to 01agtx
Early treatment or not, had they been vaccinated they would either not have contracted the virus at all or if they did it would not have affected them as severely and they wouldn't have died
01agtx said:Forum Troll said:PJYoung said:NEW: Out of more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. in May, only 150 were among people who were fully vaccinated - AP
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) June 24, 2021
Pretty staggering stat. Gotta wonder how many needless deaths are in that group due to stubbornness/vaccine refusal. Shame, but their choice I suppose. Families will have to live with it.
How many of those deaths got early treatment or even knew it existed? You really can't say they should have gotten the shot when it is likely that they didn't get early treatment either. There is no doubt that people have died because the MSM and big tech censored treatments in favor of pushing the vaccine. Shame.
Early treatment or not, had they been vaccinated they would either not have contracted the virus at all or if they did it would not have affected them as severely and they wouldn't have died
11:17a, 6/26/21
In reply to Serious Lee
If the entire team was vaccinated, some players would've still gotten Covid (probably) but never been tested and they would probably be playing for the championship next week instead of being home since Vandy had to beat them twice.
Only the unvaccinated players were initially tested so your statement isn't exactly true now is it? They don't test vaccinated players unless an unvaccinated player tests positive.Walt Luddiger said:weird you would bring that up, seeing as it was multiple VACCINATED players that tested positive leading to their forfeiture.94chem said:
Maybe not, but NC State feels pretty locked down right now. They really showed Big Brother, didn't they?
If the entire team was vaccinated, some players would've still gotten Covid (probably) but never been tested and they would probably be playing for the championship next week instead of being home since Vandy had to beat them twice.
11:46a, 6/26/21
In reply to ORAggieFan
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-reinstate-indoor-mask-mandate-next-week-as-covid-19-cases-keep-rising/
People who test positive but are vaccinated only represent an indicia that the wrong people are being tested in the wrong ways unless they are somehow symptomatic.
Exactly. And, it's not just in the US. Israel is going mask mandate again, as mask theology has not been fully repudiated globally about this upper respiratory virus that just flies right thru masks like they aren't there. There, they have all of 26 patients in critical condition, 84% of them unvaccinated. It's truly terrible science driven by the statistically illiterate on a global scale.ORAggieFan said:94chem said:harge57 said:94chem said:
When the unvaxxed get the next lockdown they desperately want, this board will be hopping again. Much like certain politicians, they love being the powerless opposition so they can do all of the complaining and bear no responsibility.
You seriously think there is a chance of another lock down?
Maybe not, but NC State feels pretty locked down right now. They really showed Big Brother, didn't they?
I'm pro vaccine, but what NC St decision showed was the stupidity of PCR testing, especially for those immune, and the atrocious decision making that's plagued this whole thing.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-reinstate-indoor-mask-mandate-next-week-as-covid-19-cases-keep-rising/
People who test positive but are vaccinated only represent an indicia that the wrong people are being tested in the wrong ways unless they are somehow symptomatic.
12:06p, 6/26/21
In reply to PJYoung
yes, but this thread is about vaccine reluctance and this scenario perfectly illustrates peoples skepticism about it. its being driven by policy, not health & safety.PJYoung said:
Only the unvaccinated players were initially tested so your statement isn't exactly true now is it? They don't test vaccinated players unless an unvaccinated player tests positive.
If the entire team was vaccinated, some players would've still gotten Covid (probably) but never been tested and they would probably be playing for the championship next week instead of being home since Vandy had to beat them twice.
12:47p, 6/26/21
Wasn't the whole mass test and quarantine strategy a method to protect the healthcare system?
Pretty sure HC system is doing okay rn.
People might be burnt out but we're not remotely close to what it was.
Pretty sure HC system is doing okay rn.
People might be burnt out but we're not remotely close to what it was.
12:47p, 6/26/21
In reply to Serious Lee
There have been numerous issues with policies along the way. Those have little to nothing to do with currently choosing to be vaccinated.
Other than the pesky fact that 90something percent of people being hospitalized are unvaccinated, sure, no health and safety involved at all.Walt Luddiger said:yes, but this thread is about vaccine reluctance and this scenario perfectly illustrates peoples skepticism about it. its being driven by policy, not health & safety.PJYoung said:
Only the unvaccinated players were initially tested so your statement isn't exactly true now is it? They don't test vaccinated players unless an unvaccinated player tests positive.
If the entire team was vaccinated, some players would've still gotten Covid (probably) but never been tested and they would probably be playing for the championship next week instead of being home since Vandy had to beat them twice.
There have been numerous issues with policies along the way. Those have little to nothing to do with currently choosing to be vaccinated.
12:55p, 6/26/21
In reply to Serious Lee
I'm not sure how you can say that when 18k died in May and only 150 were vaccinated.
I understand that the NCAA is dumb but I'm not sure what that has to do with this vaccine protecting people from serious consequences from covid.
Walt Luddiger said:yes, but this thread is about vaccine reluctance and this scenario perfectly illustrates peoples skepticism about it. its being driven by policy, not health & safety.PJYoung said:
Only the unvaccinated players were initially tested so your statement isn't exactly true now is it? They don't test vaccinated players unless an unvaccinated player tests positive.
If the entire team was vaccinated, some players would've still gotten Covid (probably) but never been tested and they would probably be playing for the championship next week instead of being home since Vandy had to beat them twice.
I'm not sure how you can say that when 18k died in May and only 150 were vaccinated.
I understand that the NCAA is dumb but I'm not sure what that has to do with this vaccine protecting people from serious consequences from covid.
8:32a, 6/28/21
In reply to cone
Yep. If they want to try to move the goalposts, the health care COSTS would be a good approach. People in employer group health plans pay for lots of lifestyle choice maladies of their coworkers. Employers could start "incentivizing" vaccination the same way they've done with smoking cessation and physical fitness. Or insurance companies could take the lead with something more draconian. Remember, they quit paying for secondary hospital infections, and all of a sudden hospitals began to care.
cone said:
Wasn't the whole mass test and quarantine strategy a method to protect the healthcare system?
Pretty sure HC system is doing okay rn.
People might be burnt out but we're not remotely close to what it was.
Yep. If they want to try to move the goalposts, the health care COSTS would be a good approach. People in employer group health plans pay for lots of lifestyle choice maladies of their coworkers. Employers could start "incentivizing" vaccination the same way they've done with smoking cessation and physical fitness. Or insurance companies could take the lead with something more draconian. Remember, they quit paying for secondary hospital infections, and all of a sudden hospitals began to care.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
8:13p, 7/5/21
How many of the dead or family of the dead would go back and get the vaccine now if they could do it all over again? What a damn shame.
9:04a, 7/6/21
In reply to SUag
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
9:12a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
I am curious to learn more on this one.
To be fair, they say he is "healthy with no underlying" however the image of him on the link would leave me to believe he was overweight (at least slightly) and may have had issues nobody knew about.
There are going to be tons of these issues...both ways.
I saw an article on Facebook where a 45 year old mom died of COVID after saying she wouldnt get the vaccine.
With this one, even if they can't prove it....i would be inclined to say those parents will have a level of regret.
Tons of anecdotal stuff for the most part on both sides of the argument.
aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
I am curious to learn more on this one.
To be fair, they say he is "healthy with no underlying" however the image of him on the link would leave me to believe he was overweight (at least slightly) and may have had issues nobody knew about.
There are going to be tons of these issues...both ways.
I saw an article on Facebook where a 45 year old mom died of COVID after saying she wouldnt get the vaccine.
With this one, even if they can't prove it....i would be inclined to say those parents will have a level of regret.
Tons of anecdotal stuff for the most part on both sides of the argument.
9:15a, 7/6/21
In reply to SUag
If you are referring to "pre-vaccine" deaths....my guess is that a large majority of those who died would have gotten the vaccine. Many of those probably would have opted for the vaccine as the victims were largely older with comorbidities so it would 100% make sense they would have gotten.
If you are referring to those would are now dying "post-vaccine"....my guess is there will no doubt be some regret but the families will probably still say the person made their own choices in life and lived, and ultimately died, by said choices.
SUag said:
How many of the dead or family of the dead would go back and get the vaccine now if they could do it all over again? What a damn shame.
If you are referring to "pre-vaccine" deaths....my guess is that a large majority of those who died would have gotten the vaccine. Many of those probably would have opted for the vaccine as the victims were largely older with comorbidities so it would 100% make sense they would have gotten.
If you are referring to those would are now dying "post-vaccine"....my guess is there will no doubt be some regret but the families will probably still say the person made their own choices in life and lived, and ultimately died, by said choices.
9:18a, 7/6/21
In reply to planoaggie123
There's a big difference between "no underlying conditions" and "no underlying conditions we knew about".
Very unfortunate in this instance in any case, but also not necessarily connected until we know more.
Very unfortunate in this instance in any case, but also not necessarily connected until we know more.
9:19a, 7/6/21
In reply to planoaggie123
Here's the official CDC data.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
Napkin math shows this 13 year old boy had a 0.01% chance of dying of COVID. Why did he need the vaccine?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
Napkin math shows this 13 year old boy had a 0.01% chance of dying of COVID. Why did he need the vaccine?
9:20a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
It's hard to know what their rationale is, but they've also probably seen similar scare stories of kids dying with COVID-19. Maybe they do or don't understand that both scenarios are extremely rare and reached what they felt was the best decision for their child.
I don't have any plans to have my 2 young kids vaccinated any time soon as any statistical benefit is insignificant enough that it doesn't mean anything, but I also don't think it's a grossly negligent for a parent to reach a different conclusion.
Take your same 0.01% above (call it x) and calculate the same for deaths of vaccinated kids in this age range (call it y). As long as y is some level lower than x, I can understand why some parents will choose to vaccinate kids in that age range.
aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
It's hard to know what their rationale is, but they've also probably seen similar scare stories of kids dying with COVID-19. Maybe they do or don't understand that both scenarios are extremely rare and reached what they felt was the best decision for their child.
I don't have any plans to have my 2 young kids vaccinated any time soon as any statistical benefit is insignificant enough that it doesn't mean anything, but I also don't think it's a grossly negligent for a parent to reach a different conclusion.
Take your same 0.01% above (call it x) and calculate the same for deaths of vaccinated kids in this age range (call it y). As long as y is some level lower than x, I can understand why some parents will choose to vaccinate kids in that age range.
9:28a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demographic
4.88 million people age 12-15 have been given at least one dose, 3.52 million have been fully vaccinated. So which is riskier?
For what it's worth I am not convinced of the utility of blanket youth vaccinations from either a personal risk or a collective societal benefit.
4.88 million people age 12-15 have been given at least one dose, 3.52 million have been fully vaccinated. So which is riskier?
For what it's worth I am not convinced of the utility of blanket youth vaccinations from either a personal risk or a collective societal benefit.
9:30a, 7/6/21
In reply to fig96
I completely agree this case needs more information.
Honestly this story should not even be out there until more is known. Just click-bait.
To say; however, the kid had no issues....it seems pretty clear he had at least one...overweight.
I do sort of hope its not the vaccine....not for "gotcha" reasons but how awful those parents might feel if they did give him the vaccine and it caused his death when statistically speaking his "risk" was SOOO low.
fig96 said:
There's a big difference between "no underlying conditions" and "no underlying conditions we knew about".
Very unfortunate in this instance in any case, but also not necessarily connected until we know more.
I completely agree this case needs more information.
Honestly this story should not even be out there until more is known. Just click-bait.
To say; however, the kid had no issues....it seems pretty clear he had at least one...overweight.
I do sort of hope its not the vaccine....not for "gotcha" reasons but how awful those parents might feel if they did give him the vaccine and it caused his death when statistically speaking his "risk" was SOOO low.
9:31a, 7/6/21
In reply to corndog04
The fact remains they're trying to protect against something he has <1% chance of dying from. It goes back to some conversations that have happened on this board about taking 1 unknown risk to prevent another. I'm curious what they thought his risk was with COVID.corndog04 said:aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
It's hard to know what their rationale is, but they've also probably seen similar scare stories of kids dying with COVID-19. Maybe they do or don't understand that both scenarios are extremely rare and reached what they felt was the best decision for their child.
I don't have any plans to have my 2 young kids vaccinated any time soon as any statistical benefit is insignificant enough that it doesn't mean anything, but I also don't think it's a grossly negligent for a parent to reach a different conclusion.
Take your same 0.01% above (call it x) and calculate the same for deaths of vaccinated kids in this age range (call it y). As long as y is some level lower than x, I can understand why some parents will choose to vaccinate kids in that age range.
9:32a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
I get it.
I don't think kids under the age of 18 should get the vaccine.
I think you can likely expand that to 35 or older.
The vaccine should be used to save those who are at high risk, and simply put, most people have an extremely low risk profile but it def does damage to older people w/ comorbidities....
I don't think kids under the age of 18 should get the vaccine.
I think you can likely expand that to 35 or older.
The vaccine should be used to save those who are at high risk, and simply put, most people have an extremely low risk profile but it def does damage to older people w/ comorbidities....
9:33a, 7/6/21
In reply to planoaggie123
99.2% of Covid deaths in May were unvaccinated. That's not anecdotal.
planoaggie123 said:aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
I am curious to learn more on this one.
To be fair, they say he is "healthy with no underlying" however the image of him on the link would leave me to believe he was overweight (at least slightly) and may have had issues nobody knew about.
There are going to be tons of these issues...both ways.
I saw an article on Facebook where a 45 year old mom died of COVID after saying she wouldnt get the vaccine.
With this one, even if they can't prove it....i would be inclined to say those parents will have a level of regret.
Tons of anecdotal stuff for the most part on both sides of the argument.
99.2% of Covid deaths in May were unvaccinated. That's not anecdotal.
9:33a, 7/6/21
In reply to Zobel
You're taking an unknown risk to prevent something than has < 1% chance of happening. The leading cause of deaths in children are MVAs. Statistically, the kids have a higher risk of dying on the way to get the shot than from COVID.Zobel said:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demographic
4.88 million people age 12-15 have been given at least one dose, 3.52 million have been fully vaccinated. So which is riskier?
For what it's worth I am not convinced of the utility of blanket youth vaccinations from either a personal risk or a collective societal benefit.
9:35a, 7/6/21
In reply to PJYoung
I am speaking to the "emotion inducing" stories.
As far as the 99% being unvaccinated....i am trying to find now but what % of those were over 55 years and how many had comorbidities...
I think the vaccine is a wonderful thing for populations of the world....
PJYoung said:planoaggie123 said:aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
I am curious to learn more on this one.
To be fair, they say he is "healthy with no underlying" however the image of him on the link would leave me to believe he was overweight (at least slightly) and may have had issues nobody knew about.
There are going to be tons of these issues...both ways.
I saw an article on Facebook where a 45 year old mom died of COVID after saying she wouldnt get the vaccine.
With this one, even if they can't prove it....i would be inclined to say those parents will have a level of regret.
Tons of anecdotal stuff for the most part on both sides of the argument.
99.2% of Covid deaths in May were unvaccinated. I don't think that's anecdotal.
I am speaking to the "emotion inducing" stories.
As far as the 99% being unvaccinated....i am trying to find now but what % of those were over 55 years and how many had comorbidities...
I think the vaccine is a wonderful thing for populations of the world....
9:37a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
If they are numbers folks, they probably thought his risk was about 0.01% as you showed. Any maybe they calculated that the risk of death with vaccine was lower and that was worth it to them. Maybe they didn't do any of this and acted on fear. I don't know, but I also don't understand the case here that there is a very clear right or wrong. Make what you feel is the best decision for your kids.
aTm2004 said:The fact remains they're trying to protect against something he has <1% chance of dying from. It goes back to some conversations that have happened on this board about taking 1 unknown risk to prevent another. I'm curious what they thought his risk was with COVID.corndog04 said:aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
It's hard to know what their rationale is, but they've also probably seen similar scare stories of kids dying with COVID-19. Maybe they do or don't understand that both scenarios are extremely rare and reached what they felt was the best decision for their child.
I don't have any plans to have my 2 young kids vaccinated any time soon as any statistical benefit is insignificant enough that it doesn't mean anything, but I also don't think it's a grossly negligent for a parent to reach a different conclusion.
Take your same 0.01% above (call it x) and calculate the same for deaths of vaccinated kids in this age range (call it y). As long as y is some level lower than x, I can understand why some parents will choose to vaccinate kids in that age range.
If they are numbers folks, they probably thought his risk was about 0.01% as you showed. Any maybe they calculated that the risk of death with vaccine was lower and that was worth it to them. Maybe they didn't do any of this and acted on fear. I don't know, but I also don't understand the case here that there is a very clear right or wrong. Make what you feel is the best decision for your kids.
9:37a, 7/6/21
In reply to planoaggie123
Agree. That's the conversation my mom and I had. She got the vaccine because of her age, but she didn't want me getting it. Her rationale was if the vaccine does end up having issues, she's lived majority of her life while I (hopefully) haven't. She's in her 60s and I'm in my 30s.planoaggie123 said:
I get it.
I don't think kids under the age of 18 should get the vaccine.
I think you can likely expand that to 35 or older.
The vaccine should be used to save those who are at high risk, and simply put, most people have an extremely low risk profile but it def does damage to older people w/ comorbidities....
9:38a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
You're not taking them to get the vaccine in order to reduce their risk related to car accidents. The vaccine risk should be compared to the risk it is intended to mitigate.
The vaccine risk is not an unknown. There have been millions of doses administered, after a 2,260 member clinical trial for 12-15, which came after millions of doses to adults, which came after 40,000+ member clinical trial, which came after previous clinical trials.
The vaccine risk is not an unknown. There have been millions of doses administered, after a 2,260 member clinical trial for 12-15, which came after millions of doses to adults, which came after 40,000+ member clinical trial, which came after previous clinical trials.
9:39a, 7/6/21
In reply to corndog04
The case was to retort what SUag posted about family of people who died of COVID going back and getting the vaccine if they could. Here's a case of someone at low risk who looks to have died from a side effect of the vaccine when they were at little risk.
The point is, there are people on both sides of the vaccine aisle who probably wish they wouldn't have made the decision they did. It's almost as if a virus and a vaccine affect certain people differently.
The point is, there are people on both sides of the vaccine aisle who probably wish they wouldn't have made the decision they did. It's almost as if a virus and a vaccine affect certain people differently.
9:40a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
Same.
My parents got it and I supported them. They are late 60s.
I have some in-laws that got it too that are under 45 but they are overweight and have health issues. Fully support.
My parents got it and I supported them. They are late 60s.
I have some in-laws that got it too that are under 45 but they are overweight and have health issues. Fully support.
9:41a, 7/6/21
In reply to planoaggie123
I don't know the specific #s but I know the average age has come way down because such a high % of the elderly have been vaccinated. I know our TexAgs doctors have said most of their serious cases and deaths are now under 50 years of age (if I remember correctly).planoaggie123 said:PJYoung said:planoaggie123 said:aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-shot
I am curious to learn more on this one.
To be fair, they say he is "healthy with no underlying" however the image of him on the link would leave me to believe he was overweight (at least slightly) and may have had issues nobody knew about.
There are going to be tons of these issues...both ways.
I saw an article on Facebook where a 45 year old mom died of COVID after saying she wouldnt get the vaccine.
With this one, even if they can't prove it....i would be inclined to say those parents will have a level of regret.
Tons of anecdotal stuff for the most part on both sides of the argument.
99.2% of Covid deaths in May were unvaccinated. I don't think that's anecdotal.
I am speaking to the "emotion inducing" stories.
As far as the 99% being unvaccinated....i am trying to find now but what % of those were over 55 years and how many had comorbidities...
I think the vaccine is a wonderful thing for populations of the world....
9:43a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
aTm2004 said:
Wonder if this boy's family would go back and not get the vaccine?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/michigan-boy-13-dies-after-second-covid-19-vaccine-s
Quote:
Health officials describe Jacob Clynick as a healthy boy with no underlying health conditions.
How long does it take to develop an "enlarged heart"?Quote:
The family was told that preliminary autopsy findings suggest Jacob's heart was enlarged when he died and there was fluid around his heart, Burages reportedly said.
9:45a, 7/6/21
In reply to aTm2004
I found this. Looks like the 75+ flipped w/ the 50-74 age group.
That is a pretty sizeable age grouping (24 years) and I would assume most of the deaths would follow logic and its likely the 60 - 74 that make up most.
There is just so much data but my other thing is I dont believe a higher percentage are dying in that age group...but rather just a higher % of the deaths b/c of the good job that has been done to get people 75 and older vaccinated....
Edit: Replied to wrong message. Meant for PJYoung.
That is a pretty sizeable age grouping (24 years) and I would assume most of the deaths would follow logic and its likely the 60 - 74 that make up most.
There is just so much data but my other thing is I dont believe a higher percentage are dying in that age group...but rather just a higher % of the deaths b/c of the good job that has been done to get people 75 and older vaccinated....
Edit: Replied to wrong message. Meant for PJYoung.