In reply to AGC Ok I'm done here.

In reply to schmendeler

schmendeler said:

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jkag89 said:

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No. Read my comment about politicians playing games with peoples lives for political gain, wealth, historical legacy, whatever . . .instead of trying to solve the problem. Do you deny the Biden Administration created this problem?

For whatever it is worth, I don't have a high opinion of Trump either. While most would label me conservative but I do not feel at home in either major political party. I have friends that tend to lean left that feel the same. One is the Evil Dumb Party, the other is the Dumb Evil Party.

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Do you agree that in this particular instance the republicans passed on a chance to enact actual reform on the border because Trump told them to?

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No, Both sides are ****s on this playing games for November votes.

Every time I open this board, I get disappointed that this isn't a Leonard Stringfield thread about extraterrestrial aliens.

In reply to TxAgPreacher

TxAgPreacher said:

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Crossing the border illegally is immoral.

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Finally a statement that has a religious/philosophical implication!

+++

So, first I would like to hear your understanding of the word "immoral" - because I have made the case that it is not immoral, since the "shutting down the border" does not square with God's plan for man to be a steward of creation.

Further, I cited Martin Luther King's letter from the Birmingham jail, in which he cites Aquinas on God's Natural Law vs. man's law. We are obligated to obey God above all.

(gets popcorn)

In reply to jkag89

jkag89 said:

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No, Both sides are ****s on this playing games for November votes.

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Depressing how much truth there is in this sentence. And depressing how many topics it can apply to. Neither side has the political will power to do anything sensible and meaningful on the issue, but I imagine politicians on both sides reading the bickering and finger pointing in this thread and doing this:

In reply to kurt vonnegut There are lots of issues, like abortion, that could have had a compromise long ago, but both sides use their side of the issue to invigorate their followers and raise contributions.
Old War Turtle was completely bent over by the Dems during the making of the so called Border compromise.
McConnel was probably the only high level politician even older and feebler than Biden.
At least he has advisors honest enough to recommend retirement.

Illegal immigration is immoral. Helping poor people is moral.
You need to get more specific to actually have a useful discussion.

In reply to Rongagin71

Rongagin71 said:

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There are lots of issues, like abortion, that could have had a compromise long ago, but both sides use their side of the issue to invigorate their followers and raise contributions.
Old War Turtle was completely bent over by the Dems during the making of the so called Border compromise.
McConnel was probably the only high level politician even older and feebler than Biden.
At least he has advisors honest enough to recommend retirement.

Illegal immigration is immoral. Helping poor people is moral.
You need to get more specific to actually have a useful discussion.

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I don't think being specific has any utility if we are still in the political bickering 'reps did this' and 'dems did that' frame of mind.

Who is Old War Turtle?

In reply to kurt vonnegut

kurt vonnegut said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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There are lots of issues, like abortion, that could have had a compromise long ago, but both sides use their side of the issue to invigorate their followers and raise contributions.
Old War Turtle was completely bent over by the Dems during the making of the so called Border compromise.
McConnel was probably the only high level politician even older and feebler than Biden.
At least he has advisors honest enough to recommend retirement.

Illegal immigration is immoral. Helping poor people is moral.
You need to get more specific to actually have a useful discussion.

---

I don't think being specific has any utility if we are still in the political bickering 'reps did this' and 'dems did that' frame of mind.

Who is Old War Turtle?

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Cocaine Mitch.

In reply to kurt vonnegut McConnel. Nickname.

In reply to jkag89

jkag89 said:

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schmendeler said:

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jkag89 said:

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No. Read my comment about politicians playing games with peoples lives for political gain, wealth, historical legacy, whatever . . .instead of trying to solve the problem. Do you deny the Biden Administration created this problem?

For whatever it is worth, I don't have a high opinion of Trump either. While most would label me conservative but I do not feel at home in either major political party. I have friends that tend to lean left that feel the same. One is the Evil Dumb Party, the other is the Dumb Evil Party.

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Do you agree that in this particular instance the republicans passed on a chance to enact actual reform on the border because Trump told them to?

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No, Both sides are ****s on this playing games for November votes.

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When you see that the two sides are us vs them and not D vs R it makes a lot more sense. Our politicians represent someone's interests it's just not the interests of common average Americans.

In reply to AggieRain

AggieRain said:

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McConnel. Nickname.

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Mr. Uniparty in the flesh...

320,000 flown to U.S. last year at taxpayer expense...
and here is an amendment to stop it that every Dem voted against.

Tonight every single Senate Democrat voted against my amendment that would stop Biden Admin from using taxpayer dollars to charter flights for hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens from their countries directly to American towns to be resettled.

Indefensible. pic.twitter.com/ofTnhSPnY8

— Senator Bill Hagerty (@SenatorHagerty) March 23, 2024

In reply to Rongagin71 https://manhattan.institute/article/bidens-immigration-parole-programs-are-working/


And they have to pay for it themselves.

https://immigrationimpact.com/2022/02/02/biden-secret-flights-of-migrants-debunked/

In reply to Macarthur You actually believe that poor people can pay for plane tickets?
No, Biden may not pay directly but there are taxpayer funded NGO's that do.

In reply to Rongagin71 Actually, yes. Most of these folks, if they come illegally, are paying someone to help get them here.

Yes, these folks do have money.

You can spin it how ever you want. The tweet is 100% false.

In reply to Macarthur The tweet was of a Senator proposing an amendment
to stop the misuse of taxpayer money by the Biden Admin.
Sorry you didn't like it, but it was a real amendment aimed
at a real problem.

In reply to Macarthur

Macarthur said:

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Actually, yes. Most of these folks, if they come illegally, are paying someone to help get them here.

Yes, these folks do have money.

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Have you ever wondered how so many Somalians got to Minnesota?
That started back when Obama was Pres, and that mass was
flown in. So were many from Syria and other troubled areas.
And most of us just shut up and let it go because the U.N. voted
for it and payed at least in part (U.S. dues went up).

I've shown w facts why this proposed bill was misguided and the entire premise is wrong. All you've done is say "yeah, but…"

In reply to Macarthur Okay, I'll show you that I actually read your stuff - but it is biased.

The first article's first sentence is "The Biden admins parole programs are successfully reducing both illegal and total immigration..." which is an accounting trick that ignores the fact that something like 8million illegal immigrants have entered the country since Trump left office.

The second article is more believable as it was written by Baron, excuse me, Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, who is Party Counsel at the American Immigration Council.
He writes "The Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) has a national network of shelters for migrant children. If a child arrives at the border, ORR will put the child on a plane..."and "Those who are loudly attacking the Biden admin for longstanding practices...are spreading fear and xenophobia..."
none of which answers my question about how, starting big time with Obama, so many young male Somalians and Syrians were flown into the U.S.
He also does not talk about how large caravans of illegal immigrants started being organized to take advantage of Biden's lax border policies.
I will say the actions of Gov Abbott, especially the publicity generated, seems to have slowed the flood through Texas, but that is probably only temporary until after the Presidential election.

So, yes, the tweet was wrong.


So much so that we had to go back to Obama and ***** about something.

In reply to Macarthur Your attempted proof trying to show that the video of the Senator
proposing a law to shut down Biden's misuse of Federal funds
was based on incorrect facts was itself just gaslighting.
I point out that if only a few deserving immigrants like separated
children were being flown around, it should have been easy
to pass a law limiting the admin's use of aircraft transportation.

In reply to TAMU1990

TAMU1990 said:

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This is so damn stupid - we have no money. The US can't not house, feed, clothe, educate, provide healthcare, arrest, and employ the rest of the world. The conversation ends here. Doesn't matter they are poor from Bangladesh, Honduras, Senagal or anywhere else in this world. They all need to be deported. Fine employers harshly for employing them, tax remittances at 50%, and tell other countries they are taking them back. Drone the narco state of Mexico. It's an act of war what the Mexican President is doing and what he said on 60 minutes.

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there is literally no one arguing that we should do this.

In reply to PabloSerna

PabloSerna said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Crossing the border illegally is immoral.

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Finally a statement that has a religious/philosophical implication!

+++

So, first I would like to hear your understanding of the word "immoral" - because I have made the case that it is not immoral, since the "shutting down the border" does not square with God's plan for man to be a steward of creation.

Further, I cited Martin Luther King's letter from the Birmingham jail, in which he cites Aquinas on God's Natural Law vs. man's law. We are obligated to obey God above all.

(gets popcorn)

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God's law tells us to obey the government. Coming into the country illegally, when you can go through the process legally makes you a criminal.

Titus 3:1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey

In reply to HumpitPuryear

HumpitPuryear said:

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Macarthur said:

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I've shown w facts why this proposed bill was misguided and the entire premise is wrong. All you've done is say "yeah, but…"

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The bill was to prevent US paid flights from OTHER COUNTRIES TO US CITIES. Your article supposedly debunking this issue is about flights within the US. Two completely different issues.

LOL at the other article - "Biden's immigration policies are actually very successful, really guys, it's awesome." Even the far left looney mayors of NYC and Chicago don't agree with that gaslighting BS.

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Turns out that Florida and Texas are getting most of the incoming flights.
One would have to be stupid not to suspect the Biden Admin of doing that
to punish its strongest political opponents.

https://texasscorecard.com/state/texas-requests-courts-reconsider-lawsuit-to-stop-biden-administration-from-misusing-parole/

More proof of massive immigration by flights.
https://texasscorecard.com/federal/thousands-of-illegal-aliens-flown-into-texas-airports/