In reply to HumpitPuryear
YOu're strawmanning it. Not once did I say Biden is one of our best presidents. I was simply pointing out FACTS.
4:58p, 4/5/24
In reply to DeProfundis
Did you read all of Cardinal Gregory's interview? He discussed this very topic. Funny thing- he didn't bring up excommunication. Being the Bishop that could make such a decision- is very important to a better understanding. So, again, you are just giving your take on it and it is a judgement.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:What you "believe" no one else that matters, meaning a Bishop, does. That should tell you everything.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Plenty. My accusation of your action remains. Biden has not been excommunicated.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:I see by your own hand that the commandment against bearing false witness means nothing to you. It should. Biden hasn't been excommunicated, but must have been thrilling to type such a lie.DeProfundis said:
I believe he has excommunicated himself from the Church with his material involvement in and promotion of one of the Catholic non-negotiable evils.
His bishop, Cardinal Wilton Gregory went as far as I've ever seen him in an interview this weekend and say he was a Cafeteria Catholic, pick and choosing what to follow and what to ignore. That was a big step, as Cdl Gregory is very reticent to speak out
Tell me what you know about Latae Sententiae excommunication before you go about jousting against an argument I haven't made.
ETA: read the exceptions for the full application of this offense.
Why don't you just tell me? And articulate an argument?
+++
I once heard a homily years ago about how many of us are going to be surprised at who made it to heaven. I advise you to stop passing judgment and stick to your critical analysis.
You're mistaking latae sententiae and ferendae sententiae. No formal decision is necessary, it is incurred immediately. I even explained my reasoning, Biden has willfully and materially cooperated in the celebration of and continuance of abortion. As such I believe he has excommunicated himself. Jesus Christ can do whatever he wants, He is Lord of All, we are bound by the Catechism, He is not.
5:03p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
Cardinal Wilton Gregory does not have to excommunicate him. There is a reason that there are two different types of excommunication. He COULD make such a decision, in my opinion he SHOULD make such a decision, but Biden is still perfectly capable of excommunicating himself.
If I find an abortionist and drive a woman to the abortion; are you judging me by saying "that's textbook material cooperation with evil"? Of course not. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, Biden immediately issued an executive order protecting abortion rights. And this is after his executive order directing the HHS to make sure the morning after pill remained available.
What do you call issuing an executive order to make sure people can get abortions?
PabloSerna said:Did you read all of Cardinal Gregory's interview? He discussed this very topic. Funny thing- he didn't bring up excommunication. Being the Bishop that could make such a decision- is very important to a better understanding. So, again, you are just giving your take on it and it is a judgement.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:What you "believe" no one else that matters, meaning a Bishop, does. That should tell you everything.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Plenty. My accusation of your action remains. Biden has not been excommunicated.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:I see by your own hand that the commandment against bearing false witness means nothing to you. It should. Biden hasn't been excommunicated, but must have been thrilling to type such a lie.DeProfundis said:
I believe he has excommunicated himself from the Church with his material involvement in and promotion of one of the Catholic non-negotiable evils.
His bishop, Cardinal Wilton Gregory went as far as I've ever seen him in an interview this weekend and say he was a Cafeteria Catholic, pick and choosing what to follow and what to ignore. That was a big step, as Cdl Gregory is very reticent to speak out
Tell me what you know about Latae Sententiae excommunication before you go about jousting against an argument I haven't made.
ETA: read the exceptions for the full application of this offense.
Why don't you just tell me? And articulate an argument?
+++
I once heard a homily years ago about how many of us are going to be surprised at who made it to heaven. I advise you to stop passing judgment and stick to your critical analysis.
You're mistaking latae sententiae and ferendae sententiae. No formal decision is necessary, it is incurred immediately. I even explained my reasoning, Biden has willfully and materially cooperated in the celebration of and continuance of abortion. As such I believe he has excommunicated himself. Jesus Christ can do whatever he wants, He is Lord of All, we are bound by the Catechism, He is not.
Cardinal Wilton Gregory does not have to excommunicate him. There is a reason that there are two different types of excommunication. He COULD make such a decision, in my opinion he SHOULD make such a decision, but Biden is still perfectly capable of excommunicating himself.
If I find an abortionist and drive a woman to the abortion; are you judging me by saying "that's textbook material cooperation with evil"? Of course not. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, Biden immediately issued an executive order protecting abortion rights. And this is after his executive order directing the HHS to make sure the morning after pill remained available.
What do you call issuing an executive order to make sure people can get abortions?
5:08p, 4/5/24
In reply to HumpitPuryear
Your mastery of language seems as flawed as your knowledge of history
HumpitPuryear said:I accept your surrender so eloquently proffered.Aggrad08 said:I made no clownish comment and there is nothing I wrote that is factually incorrect that I can't defend.HumpitPuryear said:Ummm, I was talking about radicalization of the right. You're the one that made the clownish comment about Trump. I never mentioned Trump and only mentioned Biden related to his hostile comments about other Americans.Aggrad08 said:
Yes our country is run by clowns-no argument from me. But that doesn't mean we should participate by making the same clownish arguments as long as it's in favor of the red or blue team.
In my opinion Biden is the worst president at least in modern times. That's a statement of opinion, one held by a lot of Democrats as well as Republicans. I gave some quick examples of why I hold that opinion and why four more years is a risky proposition given the decline in the last three. You attacked me on my opinion and didn't address any of the facts supporting it. But I'm the crazy one. 10-4 little buddy. Have a nice weekend.
You wrote that biden is the worst president in American history. A desperately ignorant take, and the one I responded to. Your reasons aren't particularly sound but hardly worth addressing in light of the absurdity of the statement. You are backtracking now to the last century, but I think that more or less proves how dumb the original take was.
Your mastery of language seems as flawed as your knowledge of history
5:08p, 4/5/24
In reply to HumpitPuryear
The intelligence level of the posters over there isn't the problem.
HumpitPuryear said:There are no shortage of partisan characters over there but the fact is they are political junkies and they will absolutely come at you with facts. If you think you can go over there and present one of the most unpopular presidents of late as a shining success you better be loaded for bear.Macarthur said:
The fact that you think the insane nature of that board equals folks 'shredding' someone, or whatever term you want to use, is pretty telling.
That place is an emabarasment to this great website.
The intelligence level of the posters over there isn't the problem.
5:09p, 4/5/24
In reply to DeProfundis
I am familiar with both types. I am saying that he did not excommunicate himself because he does not have full knowledge and therefore cannot incur the full penalty. You, however, claim he does- which I find impossible to believe- so who is committing the greater sin?DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Did you read all of Cardinal Gregory's interview? He discussed this very topic. Funny thing- he didn't bring up excommunication. Being the Bishop that could make such a decision- is very important to a better understanding. So, again, you are just giving your take on it and it is a judgement.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:What you "believe" no one else that matters, meaning a Bishop, does. That should tell you everything.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Plenty. My accusation of your action remains. Biden has not been excommunicated.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:I see by your own hand that the commandment against bearing false witness means nothing to you. It should. Biden hasn't been excommunicated, but must have been thrilling to type such a lie.DeProfundis said:
I believe he has excommunicated himself from the Church with his material involvement in and promotion of one of the Catholic non-negotiable evils.
His bishop, Cardinal Wilton Gregory went as far as I've ever seen him in an interview this weekend and say he was a Cafeteria Catholic, pick and choosing what to follow and what to ignore. That was a big step, as Cdl Gregory is very reticent to speak out
Tell me what you know about Latae Sententiae excommunication before you go about jousting against an argument I haven't made.
ETA: read the exceptions for the full application of this offense.
Why don't you just tell me? And articulate an argument?
+++
I once heard a homily years ago about how many of us are going to be surprised at who made it to heaven. I advise you to stop passing judgment and stick to your critical analysis.
You're mistaking latae sententiae and ferendae sententiae. No formal decision is necessary, it is incurred immediately. I even explained my reasoning, Biden has willfully and materially cooperated in the celebration of and continuance of abortion. As such I believe he has excommunicated himself. Jesus Christ can do whatever he wants, He is Lord of All, we are bound by the Catechism, He is not.
Cardinal Wilton Gregory does not have to excommunicate him. There is a reason that there are two different types of excommunication. He COULD make such a decision, in my opinion he SHOULD make such a decision, but Biden is still perfectly capable of excommunicating himself.
If I find an abortionist and drive a woman to the abortion; are you judging me by saying "that's textbook material cooperation with evil"? Of course not. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, Biden immediately issued an executive order protecting abortion rights. And this is after his executive order directing the HHS to make sure the morning after pill remained available.
What do you call issuing an executive order to make sure people can get abortions?
5:12p, 4/5/24
In reply to shsuAg12
How's inflation in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world?
shsuAg12 said:Macarthur said:He's objectively not anywhere close to the worst and just how much do you think the President has to do with your personal situation?shsuAg12 said:
I think Biden is by far the worst president. I'm having a hard time making ends meet, and he is busy pandering to transgenders?
I might add that corporate profits are at an all time high and the stock market has been doing well. Maybe, just maybe, corporate profiteering has a bit more to do with inflation than anything the POTUS does. And, our inflation, BTW, has been lower than many other countries.Corporate profits rose to a new all time high in Q4 of 2023. pic.twitter.com/mIuxvfEwqr
— Kathy Jones (@KathyJones) March 28, 2024
This is the corporate profit index
So you care more about corporations than people?
Now do inflation.
How's inflation in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world?
5:12p, 4/5/24
In reply to Aggrad08
But, we both know that either ain't worth a damn, and neither is any other mainstream politician in this country.
No argument here. Yet still better than Biden & Co. somehow...Aggrad08 said:Trump isn't so much extreme right as he is an extreme moron.DeProfundis said:
Trump is to the left of Bill Clinton and has a lot more overlap with Barack Obama than does George Bush. I don't know what he does that people think is so conservative, and he can only be thought conservative in opposition to the Democrats who have gone so completely bat**** crazy it's not sane to use them to calibrate
But, we both know that either ain't worth a damn, and neither is any other mainstream politician in this country.
5:12p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
You don't think he has full knowledge on abortion? How can you be a Catholic of his age without knowing? He is definitely creating the greater sin, without his efforts millions could not get abortion. That is the definition of formal and material cooperation.
What I'm doing isn't even a sin. How is me opining on whether he incurred excommunication a sin?
PabloSerna said:I am familiar with both types. I am saying that he did not excommunicate himself because he does not have full knowledge and therefore cannot incur the full penalty. You, however, claim he does- which I find impossible to believe- so who is committing the greater sin?DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Did you read all of Cardinal Gregory's interview? He discussed this very topic. Funny thing- he didn't bring up excommunication. Being the Bishop that could make such a decision- is very important to a better understanding. So, again, you are just giving your take on it and it is a judgement.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:What you "believe" no one else that matters, meaning a Bishop, does. That should tell you everything.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:Plenty. My accusation of your action remains. Biden has not been excommunicated.DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:I see by your own hand that the commandment against bearing false witness means nothing to you. It should. Biden hasn't been excommunicated, but must have been thrilling to type such a lie.DeProfundis said:
I believe he has excommunicated himself from the Church with his material involvement in and promotion of one of the Catholic non-negotiable evils.
His bishop, Cardinal Wilton Gregory went as far as I've ever seen him in an interview this weekend and say he was a Cafeteria Catholic, pick and choosing what to follow and what to ignore. That was a big step, as Cdl Gregory is very reticent to speak out
Tell me what you know about Latae Sententiae excommunication before you go about jousting against an argument I haven't made.
ETA: read the exceptions for the full application of this offense.
Why don't you just tell me? And articulate an argument?
+++
I once heard a homily years ago about how many of us are going to be surprised at who made it to heaven. I advise you to stop passing judgment and stick to your critical analysis.
You're mistaking latae sententiae and ferendae sententiae. No formal decision is necessary, it is incurred immediately. I even explained my reasoning, Biden has willfully and materially cooperated in the celebration of and continuance of abortion. As such I believe he has excommunicated himself. Jesus Christ can do whatever he wants, He is Lord of All, we are bound by the Catechism, He is not.
Cardinal Wilton Gregory does not have to excommunicate him. There is a reason that there are two different types of excommunication. He COULD make such a decision, in my opinion he SHOULD make such a decision, but Biden is still perfectly capable of excommunicating himself.
If I find an abortionist and drive a woman to the abortion; are you judging me by saying "that's textbook material cooperation with evil"? Of course not. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, Biden immediately issued an executive order protecting abortion rights. And this is after his executive order directing the HHS to make sure the morning after pill remained available.
What do you call issuing an executive order to make sure people can get abortions?
You don't think he has full knowledge on abortion? How can you be a Catholic of his age without knowing? He is definitely creating the greater sin, without his efforts millions could not get abortion. That is the definition of formal and material cooperation.
What I'm doing isn't even a sin. How is me opining on whether he incurred excommunication a sin?
5:23p, 4/5/24
In reply to Sapper Redux
South Korea
Ivory Coast
Taiwan
Bolivia
Indonesia
Peru
Tanzania
Macedonia
Finland
Malta
Greece
Japan
Canada
European Union
Faroe Islands
Cambodia
Qatar
Burkina Faso
Mauritania
Albania
Israel
Guinea Bissau
Euro Area
Central African Republic
Portugal
Senegal
France
Gabon
Papua New Guinea
Kosovo
Germany
Hong Kong
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
Bahamas
Puerto Rico
Poland
Malaysia
Saudi Arabia
Libya
Ecuador
Jordan
Panama
Macau
Italy
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Cyprus
Maldives
Guyana
Comoros
Switzerland
Aruba
Sri Lanka
Denmark
El Salvador
China
Lithuania
Bahrain
New Caledonia
Georgia
Iraq
Latvia
Trinidad and Tobago
Morocco
Benin
Oman
Seychelles
Mali
Thailand
Cape Verde
Brunei
Costa Rica
Armenia
Afghanistan
All had better inflation than us. And my grocery bill has more than doubled. Not acceptable.
NetherlandsSapper Redux said:shsuAg12 said:Macarthur said:He's objectively not anywhere close to the worst and just how much do you think the President has to do with your personal situation?shsuAg12 said:
I think Biden is by far the worst president. I'm having a hard time making ends meet, and he is busy pandering to transgenders?
I might add that corporate profits are at an all time high and the stock market has been doing well. Maybe, just maybe, corporate profiteering has a bit more to do with inflation than anything the POTUS does. And, our inflation, BTW, has been lower than many other countries.Corporate profits rose to a new all time high in Q4 of 2023. pic.twitter.com/mIuxvfEwqr
— Kathy Jones (@KathyJones) March 28, 2024
This is the corporate profit index
So you care more about corporations than people?
Now do inflation.
How's inflation in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world?
South Korea
Ivory Coast
Taiwan
Bolivia
Indonesia
Peru
Tanzania
Macedonia
Finland
Malta
Greece
Japan
Canada
European Union
Faroe Islands
Cambodia
Qatar
Burkina Faso
Mauritania
Albania
Israel
Guinea Bissau
Euro Area
Central African Republic
Portugal
Senegal
France
Gabon
Papua New Guinea
Kosovo
Germany
Hong Kong
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
Bahamas
Puerto Rico
Poland
Malaysia
Saudi Arabia
Libya
Ecuador
Jordan
Panama
Macau
Italy
Azerbaijan
Liechtenstein
Cyprus
Maldives
Guyana
Comoros
Switzerland
Aruba
Sri Lanka
Denmark
El Salvador
China
Lithuania
Bahrain
New Caledonia
Georgia
Iraq
Latvia
Trinidad and Tobago
Morocco
Benin
Oman
Seychelles
Mali
Thailand
Cape Verde
Brunei
Costa Rica
Armenia
Afghanistan
All had better inflation than us. And my grocery bill has more than doubled. Not acceptable.
5:33p, 4/5/24
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
5:36p, 4/5/24
In reply to DeProfundis
Demagoguery is just the start of trumps failings. You need not be a buffoon to be a demagogue, you only need to appeal to buffoons. Nor do I think populism and demagoguery are necessarily linked.
And again with the lack of accountability. The left didn't make conservatives vote for Trump anymore than they made them ignore desantis.
George bush won twice. Romney didn't do terrible, going against a charismatic first black presidential candidate after your own party was leaving the White House with low approval was a major uphill climb. I'm not really sure what revisionist history republicans are appealing to in order to act like they were throwing away an easy win.
McCain was a weak candidate and picking Sarah palin did him no favors. But once again, historically incumbents do very well and need quite low approval to get ousted as a one term president.
I don't know how you look upon that particular data set and think " see our only choice was a demagogue".
Democrats had losers in gore, Kerry, and Hillary during the same era. Do democrats get to make a similar excuse on account of their failed candidates?
DeProfundis said:Aggrad08 said:Trump isn't so much extreme right as he is an extreme moron.DeProfundis said:
Trump is to the left of Bill Clinton and has a lot more overlap with Barack Obama than does George Bush. I don't know what he does that people think is so conservative, and he can only be thought conservative in opposition to the Democrats who have gone so completely bat**** crazy it's not sane to use them to calibrate
I think they have a word for those……demagogue. You know how you get one of those? Maybe by doing exactly what the left has done over the last 20 years. Did you somehow miss George W Bush, Mitt Romney and John McCain? How did that work out?
Demagoguery is just the start of trumps failings. You need not be a buffoon to be a demagogue, you only need to appeal to buffoons. Nor do I think populism and demagoguery are necessarily linked.
And again with the lack of accountability. The left didn't make conservatives vote for Trump anymore than they made them ignore desantis.
George bush won twice. Romney didn't do terrible, going against a charismatic first black presidential candidate after your own party was leaving the White House with low approval was a major uphill climb. I'm not really sure what revisionist history republicans are appealing to in order to act like they were throwing away an easy win.
McCain was a weak candidate and picking Sarah palin did him no favors. But once again, historically incumbents do very well and need quite low approval to get ousted as a one term president.
I don't know how you look upon that particular data set and think " see our only choice was a demagogue".
Democrats had losers in gore, Kerry, and Hillary during the same era. Do democrats get to make a similar excuse on account of their failed candidates?
5:54p, 4/5/24
In reply to shsuAg12
All had better inflation when? The overall trend is that the U.S. has been the best amongst G7 nations despite a spike in 2022 and one of the best overall in general.
Inflation is global, not just in the U.S., due to global circumstances, and Biden's response has worked to prevent a recession and slow inflation.
Inflation is global, not just in the U.S., due to global circumstances, and Biden's response has worked to prevent a recession and slow inflation.
5:55p, 4/5/24
In reply to Aggrad08
For reactionaries their own excesses are never their fault or their desire. It's always the fault of the guy they want to harm.
7:57p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
You simply cannot be serious with this post...
PabloSerna said:
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
You simply cannot be serious with this post...
9:09p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
Abortion supporters love their euphemisms. I think they went with "choice" because "the final solution to the unwanted pregnancy problem" would have been too obvious.
PabloSerns said:
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life.
Abortion supporters love their euphemisms. I think they went with "choice" because "the final solution to the unwanted pregnancy problem" would have been too obvious.
9:10p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
I don't share your optimism. These guys have both flipped on abortion.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-06-24/how-biden-and-trump-switched-sides-on-abortion
PabloSerna said:
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
I don't share your optimism. These guys have both flipped on abortion.
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-06-24/how-biden-and-trump-switched-sides-on-abortion
9:10p, 4/5/24
In reply to PabloSerna
Holy guacamole this deserves to be in the goal tending hall of fame and you sir are an amazing contortionist. Well done! BRAVO. Double bravo if you typed it with a straight face.
PabloSerna said:
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
Holy guacamole this deserves to be in the goal tending hall of fame and you sir are an amazing contortionist. Well done! BRAVO. Double bravo if you typed it with a straight face.
12:11p, 4/6/24
In reply to Aggrad08
What are we going to do? Not vote for the candidate? We have two party system I should have to tell you about its failing. Unless I write in "Jesus Christ" I'm going to have to vote for someone I'm probably going to have to compromise with a bunch.
Every candidate I've mentioned was 1. Literally Hitler during their campaign, 2. Became a darling of the liberals during their loss or end of their term.
The left NEVER has to make excuses, they have complete institutional control. Any time they lose it's because America is racist, or there was a "white-lash", and it gets fed to the institutions and becomes part of American history and disseminated to the masses. You cannot be a successful populist without being a demagogue. My favorite Political candidate ever, Pat Buchanan was never successful because of his staid conservative style, despite being wildly populist.
Trump who is barely populist, wooes millions of voters because of his style. DeSantis is more presidential than Trump. He would have bombed in the Midwest.
I understand that it's fun to make fun of uneducated white people (they're the only institutionally allowed target) but they know they're being made fun of, and they like when someone buffoonishly lashes out
Aggrad08 said:DeProfundis said:Aggrad08 said:Trump isn't so much extreme right as he is an extreme moron.DeProfundis said:
Trump is to the left of Bill Clinton and has a lot more overlap with Barack Obama than does George Bush. I don't know what he does that people think is so conservative, and he can only be thought conservative in opposition to the Democrats who have gone so completely bat**** crazy it's not sane to use them to calibrate
I think they have a word for those……demagogue. You know how you get one of those? Maybe by doing exactly what the left has done over the last 20 years. Did you somehow miss George W Bush, Mitt Romney and John McCain? How did that work out?
Demagoguery is just the start of trumps failings. You need not be a buffoon to be a demagogue, you only need to appeal to buffoons. Nor do I think populism and demagoguery are necessarily linked.
And again with the lack of accountability. The left didn't make conservatives vote for Trump anymore than they made them ignore desantis.
George bush won twice. Romney didn't do terrible, going against a charismatic first black presidential candidate after your own party was leaving the White House with low approval was a major uphill climb. I'm not really sure what revisionist history republicans are appealing to in order to act like they were throwing away an easy win.
McCain was a weak candidate and picking Sarah palin did him no favors. But once again, historically incumbents do very well and need quite low approval to get ousted as a one term president.
I don't know how you look upon that particular data set and think " see our only choice was a demagogue".
Democrats had losers in gore, Kerry, and Hillary during the same era. Do democrats get to make a similar excuse on account of their failed candidates?
What are we going to do? Not vote for the candidate? We have two party system I should have to tell you about its failing. Unless I write in "Jesus Christ" I'm going to have to vote for someone I'm probably going to have to compromise with a bunch.
Every candidate I've mentioned was 1. Literally Hitler during their campaign, 2. Became a darling of the liberals during their loss or end of their term.
The left NEVER has to make excuses, they have complete institutional control. Any time they lose it's because America is racist, or there was a "white-lash", and it gets fed to the institutions and becomes part of American history and disseminated to the masses. You cannot be a successful populist without being a demagogue. My favorite Political candidate ever, Pat Buchanan was never successful because of his staid conservative style, despite being wildly populist.
Trump who is barely populist, wooes millions of voters because of his style. DeSantis is more presidential than Trump. He would have bombed in the Midwest.
I understand that it's fun to make fun of uneducated white people (they're the only institutionally allowed target) but they know they're being made fun of, and they like when someone buffoonishly lashes out
12:14p, 4/6/24
In reply to PabloSerna
The words "abortion" are literally in his executive orders. If I were president and signed an EO to protect the death penalty, which had just been outlawed, you would be ripping your hair out and posting scripture about the sacredness of life etc etc. There's always nuance and benefit of the doubt for the progressives or leftists. The right gets the hammer
ETA here is one of the most damning portions of his EO
PabloSerna said:
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
The words "abortion" are literally in his executive orders. If I were president and signed an EO to protect the death penalty, which had just been outlawed, you would be ripping your hair out and posting scripture about the sacredness of life etc etc. There's always nuance and benefit of the doubt for the progressives or leftists. The right gets the hammer
ETA here is one of the most damning portions of his EO
12:26p, 4/6/24
In reply to DeProfundis
Also, for the benefit of others, reference canon 1397...
https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib6-cann1364-1399_en.html
DeProfundis said:PabloSerna said:
I was told once, never to cite Canon Law, because very few even understand it.. however, this exception seems easy enough to understand:
Can. 1323 No one is liable to a penalty who, when violating a law or precept:
1 has not completed the sixteenth year of age;
2 was, without fault, ignorant of violating the law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;
....
There are quite a few other exemptions, but I call your attention to #2. You are making the case (I will accept your deference on judgement, since I cannot know your heart- lest I make the same error) that Biden cannot be ignorant of the grave and moral evil that is abortion.
Here is why I say he must be- that he continues to refer to it as a woman's "choice" or "reproductive freedom." It was interesting that he choose those words instead of the word "abortion" at his recent State of the Union. This tells me that he is stuck on the lie that this is about human freedom instead of human life. Maybe you have never had to think about it that way, but for some (me at one time), the idea of denying a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason- seems bigger than the tiny cells quickly forming into a baby.
You and I (now) have a different understanding. We know (full knowledge) that only God gives life (Acts 17:25). That God has known us before we were in our mother's womb (Jer 1:5). So we could never issue such an executive order.
The words "abortion" are literally in his executive orders. If I were president and signed an EO to protect the death penalty, which had just been outlawed, you would be ripping your hair out and posting scripture about the sacredness of life etc etc. There's always nuance and benefit of the doubt for the progressives or leftists. The right gets the hammer
Also, for the benefit of others, reference canon 1397...
https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib6-cann1364-1399_en.html
10:57p, 4/16/24
In reply to Sapper Redux
Yeah, forging ahead is great but sometimes mistakes are made.
People of all stripes, progressive or conservative, tend
to make excuses and blame the other guy.
Such is human nature.
I've never been exactly sure what is so bad about reacting.Sapper Redux said:
For reactionaries their own excesses are never their fault or their desire. It's always the fault of the guy they want to harm.
Yeah, forging ahead is great but sometimes mistakes are made.
People of all stripes, progressive or conservative, tend
to make excuses and blame the other guy.
Such is human nature.