In reply to agsalaska

agsalaska said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

I'm a registered Democrat.

---

I voted straight Republican until 2020.

Trump stormed into the room, put his boot in the throat of the party and now in addition to wanting limited federal power I also have to want an AR-15 and hate trans people and love Russia and drowning illegal immigrants.

It ain't for me. And it ain't for a lot of other people. But by all means, continue in this path and see where it gets you.

---

That's a good post.

And the reaction to it will show why the Republicans lose elections.

---

Thank goodness. Hope the Rs get their ass kicked this year. They deserve it after their behavior. Biden is the best president since Carter.

In reply to FCBlitz

FCBlitz said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

I'm a registered Democrat.

---

I voted straight Republican until 2020.

Trump stormed into the room, put his boot in the throat of the party and now in addition to wanting limited federal power I also have to want an AR-15 and hate trans people and love Russia and drowning illegal immigrants.

It ain't for me. And it ain't for a lot of other people. But by all means, continue in this path and see where it gets you.

---

Jester's back.

If you do not want a AR-15…..great don't by one. I have a few and they haven't killed anyone. In fact you are wayyyyy more likely to get shot and killed by a Democratic voter wielding a weapon that is NOT AR-15. But it feels good to get angry about something that is made up.

Love Russians…..they do have some beautiful women but I am all for killing Russians on the Battlefield in Ukraine. So are all of my conservative friends. What we didn't want was combined bill of UKRAINE/ISRAEL/BORDER. Along with accountability for spending. The last accusation that we all want to drown illegals is just propaganda talking points. No one wants them to drown. We want accountability and for the process to be followed. No one needs to be here illegally and not everyone who wants to come shouldn't expect they will be allowed in.

Maybe you were never a Republican at all? Maybe you are just making claims that a Storming Trump with a AR-15 and his Russian buddies are scaring illegals to the point they can't swim the Rio Grande causing them to get caught in a weir dam and drown.

Crazy how folks make stuff up in their head and get angry about it. Every single point above is just made up.

---

I wanted to respond to that poster, but you said it very well for me. Nicely done. "Wanting illegals to drown" is just hyperbolic propaganda. Hard to take someone that says that seriously.

In reply to BassCowboy33

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

You have to understand that a number of posters on here think that the John Birch Society is too far to the left...

In reply to Old Army Metal

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

Registering as a Republican so you can disrupt the primaries doesn't count.

In reply to Logos Stick

Logos Stick said:

---

shiftyandquick said:

---

Reagan Republicans won this round. MAGA Republicans will be put out of their misery in November with massive losses. Maybe things in the party will finally change after that.

---

Of course. Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals. He also passed EMTALA. He was also the first prez to double the debt.

---

The primary driver of that was the increases in SS and MC...

Serious question. So Ukraine gets another 60 billion. So what does this accomplish? Another 6 months of fighting and then what? Another $60 billion then?

Is there ANY effort to actually stop the war? Or does US intelligence think they can just make Russia run out of money and arms and quit?

What is the end game strategy?

Or is this just the last $60B money laundering scheme since they know when Trump wins in November, he will shut it down and the game stops?

This all just doesn't make logical sense and feels like just another tax scam of our money for someone else' gain.

In reply to Old Army Metal

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

I'm a registered Democrat.

---

I voted straight Republican until 2020.

Trump stormed into the room, put his boot in the throat of the party and now in addition to wanting limited federal power I also have to want an AR-15 and hate trans people and love Russia and drowning illegal immigrants.

It ain't for me. And it ain't for a lot of other people. But by all means, continue in this path and see where it gets you.

---

No reason for such an absurd reduction of the GOP. You are a Democrat now. You can admit it.

In reply to DDub74

DDub74 said:

---

Serious question. So Ukraine gets another 60 billion. So what does this accomplish? Another 6 months of fighting and then what? Another $60 billion then?

Is there ANY effort to actually stop the war? Or does US intelligence think they can just make Russia run out of money and arms and quit?

What is the end game strategy?

Or is this just the last $60B money laundering scheme since they know when Trump wins in November, he will shut it down and the game stops?

This all just doesn't make logical sense and feels like just another tax scam of our money for someone else' gain.

---

There is no end game strategy other than stalemate. And by doing so you can launder the **** out of money and feed contracts back to MIC and corporations you want to be winners from it.

That's all this. Feeding the MIC was actually touted as one of the main reasons we should pass this aid.

About half of House Republicans voted for the foreign aid bill and the crazies chickened out of voting out the Speaker. Smack down loss for Trump and crazy town Republicans.

Funny how it all panned out: not in a haha way, but in a "we laugh to not cry" kind of way. GOP played with fire and got massively burnt.

Their overall political strategy has been absolutely bizarre as of late... I guess that what happens when you purge national Republican organizations and hire for loyalty, not competency. So sad.

In reply to Logos Stick

Logos Stick said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

I'm a registered Democrat.

---

WGAS?

In reply to DDub74

DDub74 said:

---

Serious question. So Ukraine gets another 60 billion. So what does this accomplish? Another 6 months of fighting and then what? Another $60 billion then?

Is there ANY effort to actually stop the war? Or does US intelligence think they can just make Russia run out of money and arms and quit?

What is the end game strategy?

Or is this just the last $60B money laundering scheme since they know when Trump wins in November, he will shut it down and the game stops?

This all just doesn't make logical sense and feels like just another tax scam of our money for someone else' gain.

---

See if this is a useful rant.....


Another way to say this is to ask which correlation is stronger:

Between this bill and Ukraine's chances of continued independence

or

Between this bill and the flow of money and power to Washington, corporate, and foreign interests.

With these type questions comes a dawning awareness for many that the so-called Representatives don't represent their voting constituents. However, the R vs D labeling is so ingrained that people can't see past it. It is like trying to argue about reforming College Football and only talking about things in terms of what the NCAA will do. The real landscape is different than how people regularly talk about it.

From a Washington perspective there is more new money to be made representing the far flung Empire than in Domestic squabbles over US borders, US factories, US jobs and such. In this view the Republic has been captured, but not by the Ds, Rs, or a Caesar.

Is Washington's allegiance to "We The People" or other interests?

In reply to Old Army Metal

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Old Army Metal said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

So is Liz Cheney.

---

So am I!

---

I'm a registered Democrat.

---

I voted straight Republican until 2020.

Trump stormed into the room, put his boot in the throat of the party and now in addition to wanting limited federal power I also have to want an AR-15 and hate trans people and love Russia and drowning illegal immigrants.

It ain't for me. And it ain't for a lot of other people. But by all means, continue in this path and see where it gets you.

---

Wow. After reading this post my assessment, and any other sane person, is that you never voted Republican.

In reply to GMaster0

GMaster0 said:

---

About half of House Republicans voted for the foreign aid bill and the crazies chickened out of voting out the Speaker. Smack down loss for Trump and crazy town Republicans.

Funny how it all panned out: not in a haha way, but in a "we laugh to not cry" kind of way. GOP played with fire and got massively burnt.

Their overall political strategy has been absolutely bizarre as of late... I guess that what happens when you purge national Republican organizations and hire for loyalty, not competency. So sad.

---

The RNC sucked and was failing massively. Change was needed.

In reply to UAS Ag

UAS Ag said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

You have to understand that a number of posters on here think that the John Birch Society is too far to the left...

---

Yep. If your not for pretty much everything Trump says (whether it's actually a conservative thing or not) you aren't a real republican, and you sure as sheet ain't a true maga.

In reply to GMaster0

GMaster0 said:

---

About half of House Republicans voted for the foreign aid bill and the crazies chickened out of voting out the Speaker. Smack down loss for Trump and crazy town Republicans.

Funny how it all panned out: not in a haha way, but in a "we laugh to not cry" kind of way. GOP played with fire and got massively burnt.

Their overall political strategy has been absolutely bizarre as of late... I guess that what happens when you purge national Republican organizations and hire for loyalty, not competency. So sad.

---

Nothing crazy about Republicans. Just another parroted lie just like the rich not paying their fair share. There are two camps of Republicans (1) Uniparty Rs and (2) Traditional Rs. The former generally side with the Democrats and the Deep State these days. The latter are who used to be mainstream Rs that haven't changed from what conservatives always were.

The difference now that didn't exist in the history of the two parties before is that we are broke and way over our skis financially. Traditional Rs are protesting Ukraine spending because the US debt ratio is now in a peer group with Japan and the PIGS. Think about that for a second. Granted, if you are Democrat, you can't and won't think about it because you aren't smart enough to understand what it means and if you are Uniparty then you don't care.

Add on top of that our insistence to spend money to defend other countries borders while ignoring our own and advocating for open US borders. That is literally treasonous, and you should be able to understand how galling all of this is. Again, granted, you have to have the mental capacity to understand why it would be galling in the first place.

Christian Zionists are some of the most harmful, stupid people in the US. They give our money to people who view Christianity itself as some abomination.

Imagine giving a person across town 1,000 bucks who talks **** about you, while you need a fence repair that you can no longer afford.

Ukraine is a waste, but I suppose there is some geopolitical value there.

In reply to YouBet Well said.

In reply to agsalaska

agsalaska said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

BassCowboy33 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Johnson is sharing the GOP Speakership with Democrats.

To bring Ukraine spending up for a vote, he made a deal with Democrats on the procedural vote.

Then he passed the bill today with every Democrat voting YEA and a majority of Republicans voting NAY.https://t.co/5d1QLOgmEy pic.twitter.com/hbN7voL9xL

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 20, 2024

---

Holy bipartisanship, Batman!

---

You dgas about bipartisan. You are happy because your side, the left, won.

---

I'm a registered Republican.

---

I'm with you. I'm not a registered Republican but vote straight ticket Republican most of the time and fully agree that supporting Ukraine is the correct decision. Israel is a no brainer.

I think it is important for Republicans to speak against isolationism within the party. I understand and am sympathetic with some of their reasoning, but in the end think it's wrong.

Support Ukraine is the correct foreign policy decision. Glad we got there.

---

Why? How?

What I mean by this, is that from a policy perspective, it is not enough to decide to send $60 Billion to Ukraine on a simple argument of "defeating Putin". We have already sent over $75 Billion with very little accountability for those expenditures, and now we're basically doubling down on check writing.

But Ukraine is running out of manpower. The current average age of its fighters is over 40, and they're running out of people. All the money in the world won't fix that.

So I have three major questions:
1. How exactly is this money to be spent, other than buying little flags to wave on the House floor at $1 million per..
2. What are the specific objectives to be achieved, along with metrics to evaluate progress?
3. How can we be sure that substantial amounts of these funds aren't being pilfered off to corrupt individuals in Ukraine AND the US?

Until those questions are addressed, this was NOT a good policy decision. It was pork.

In reply to jrdaustin The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

In reply to YouBet

YouBet said:

---

The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

---

So why would Johnson support stalemate for 2024, while reversing his previous stance and giving Dems an election year win to do so?

Is he a closet supporter of the Biden administration?

In reply to jrdaustin

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

---

So why would Johnson support stalemate for 2024, while reversing his previous stance and giving Dems an election year win to do so?

Is he a closet supporter of the Biden administration?

---

Because the larger plan is to admit them to NATO and they want Ukraine to maintain as much of their landmass integrity as they can before they can make that happen.

Johnson has said it's a principle decision for him regardless of party politics.

We can sit here and argue back and forth on Ukraine, but in the end, the politicians in Washington are just puppets for the real power players in the world and they will do as they are blackmailed. It doesn't really matter about another $60B to Ukraine, is anyone going to Ukraine soon? In the end the war will stop and Russia will get their part and Ukraine will get what's left.

What worries me more is at home. The illegal immigration invasion is and will change our day to day more than anything overseas. This war and Israel is a great distraction for the US while Biden keeps letting in millions more.

I truly believe the Deep State is 100% running the country and they want the US to continue its right vs left non-stop arguments so they can keep doing what they want in the shadows.

In reply to YouBet

YouBet said:

---

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

---

So why would Johnson support stalemate for 2024, while reversing his previous stance and giving Dems an election year win to do so?

Is he a closet supporter of the Biden administration?

---

Because the larger plan is to admit them to NATO and they want Ukraine to maintain as much of their landmass integrity as they can before they can make that happen.

Johnson has said it's a principle decision for him regardless of party politics.

---

Here's where I get totally confused.

Russia has been understandably concerned with NATO being an aggressor/encroacher since 1990, when they opposed the addition of former sattelite states of Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. NATO added insult to injury in 2004 with the additions of former Soviet states Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, & Slovenia, followed by two more in 2009, Albania and Croatia.

Now there's serious consideration of adding Ukraine, which will undoubtedly be followed by Moldova.

It's understandable for proponents of NATO to continue to say that it remains a defensive organization as it gobbles up more territory, but it is also understandable to see why Putin views NATO as an aggressor. Putin views the US and NATO as imperialist. The 12 additional countries in NATO followed by discussions to add Russian border states suggest he has a point.

The US has maintained a neutral position with Taiwan in order to keep the peace with China, yet we have had no qualms whatsoever continuing to annex former Soviet Union countries and further isolating and thumbing our nose at Russia. Do we want to keep the peace, or not? Admittance of Ukraine into NATO would invite a full scale war, imo; and, China continues to watch.

The United States has taken it upon itself to become the worldwide enforcer of homosexuality. I'm not even joking, Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church, puppet that he is, noted as such.

From pressuring Botswana to decriminalize sodomy, to supporting Israel to whatever gay witchcraft and soldiers in high heels is being promoted in Ukraine.

There might be something to the whole "Great Satan" thing, I kind of hate what sort of "freedoms" we are promoting as well

In reply to jrdaustin

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

---

So why would Johnson support stalemate for 2024, while reversing his previous stance and giving Dems an election year win to do so?

Is he a closet supporter of the Biden administration?

---

Because the larger plan is to admit them to NATO and they want Ukraine to maintain as much of their landmass integrity as they can before they can make that happen.

Johnson has said it's a principle decision for him regardless of party politics.

---

Here's where I get totally confused.

Russia has been understandably concerned with NATO being an aggressor/encroacher since 1990, when they opposed the addition of former sattelite states of Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. NATO added insult to injury in 2004 with the additions of former Soviet states Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, & Slovenia, followed by two more in 2009, Albania and Croatia.

[...]

---

I guess I missed it when NATO invaded Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. And again in 2004. Did NATO send in troops to destroy farmland, shell cities, knock out the power infrastructure, kill their citizens, and kidnap their children? I guess the evil Obama regime just memory-holed all that so we wouldn't notice. Sneaky.

In reply to Watermelon Man

Watermelon Man said:

---

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

jrdaustin said:

---

YouBet said:

---

The objective is stalemate for 2024. That's been stated by many and the media even runs with that now.

Until one of two things happen (1) West Ukroane joins NATO or (2) Europe takes their turn in 2025 to fund that year until (1) can get done.

---

So why would Johnson support stalemate for 2024, while reversing his previous stance and giving Dems an election year win to do so?

Is he a closet supporter of the Biden administration?

---

Because the larger plan is to admit them to NATO and they want Ukraine to maintain as much of their landmass integrity as they can before they can make that happen.

Johnson has said it's a principle decision for him regardless of party politics.

---

Here's where I get totally confused.

Russia has been understandably concerned with NATO being an aggressor/encroacher since 1990, when they opposed the addition of former sattelite states of Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. NATO added insult to injury in 2004 with the additions of former Soviet states Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, & Slovenia, followed by two more in 2009, Albania and Croatia.

[...]

---

I guess I missed it when NATO invaded Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. And again in 2004. Did NATO send in troops to destroy farmland, shell cities, knock out the power infrastructure, kill their citizens, and kidnap their children? I guess the evil Obama regime just memory-holed all that so we wouldn't notice. Sneaky.

---

In reply to jrdaustin Agree. But I think the calculus has changed for the west at this point. I think they've moved past the fear of causing WW3 if Ukraine joins NATO. It's the only way out.

You either are perpetually funding Ukraine to maintain a stalemate or you stop funding and let Russia win. The former will become increasingly challenging from a political standpoint in the US while Europe simply doesn't have the means to do it, and the latter won't be allowed to happen because of the black eye it would cause.

That leaves NATO membership which is a compromise position under the assumption that Putin won't detonate a nuke. I think everyone just thinks he's not crazy enough to do that or they have convinced themselves of it. Right or wrong.

In reply to AggieCVQ

AggieCVQ said:

---

Christian Zionists are some of the most harmful, stupid people in the US. They give our money to people who view Christianity itself as some abomination.

Imagine giving a person across town 1,000 bucks who talks **** about you, while you need a fence repair that you can no longer afford.

Ukraine is a waste, but I suppose there is some geopolitical value there.

---

One of basic tenets of Christianity is to love your enemy. The Good Samaritan. Turn the other cheek. Etc...

But, to you, those who want to put such tenets into action are to be considered "the most harmful, stupid people in the US."

House Democrats are saying they will vote to table any motion to vacate the Speaker when Congress returns to session in May. That should kill the issue until the next Congress and cut the legs out from under House MAGA.

OUTRAGE

In reply to 74OA

74OA said:

---

House Democrats are saying they will vote to table any motion to vacate the Speaker when Congress returns to session in May. That should kill the issue until the next Congress and cut the legs out from under House MAGA.

OUTRAGE

---

Say what you want about the Dems, but they understand the use of power and kicking your opponents when they're down.