More government overreach- airline refunds

P.H. Dexippus

5:11p, 4/24/24

The Biden Administrative State is on a roll this week. First, the FTC overstepping their charter to ban non competes. Now the DOT increasing airline fares.

BREAKING: The Department of Transportation has issued a new rule requiring airlines to give you an automatic refund if your flight is canceled or delayed or if they lose your bags, per MorePerfectUnion
— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) April 24, 2024

C@LAg

5:17p, 4/24/24

I have not read the legislation but if THIS is the case... I am for it.

NONE of these seem unreasonable, but of course the details are in the legislation.

"Passengers deserve to get their money back when an airline owes them without headaches or haggling," Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said in a press release on the new refund rule.

Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:

Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines "significant change." Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.
Significantly delayed baggage return: Passengers who file a mishandled baggage report will be entitled to a refund of their checked bag fee if it is not delivered within 12 hours of their domestic flight arriving at the gate, or 15-30 hours of their international flight arriving at the gate, depending on the length of the flight.
Extra services not provided: Passengers will be entitled to a refund for the fee they paid for an extra service such as Wi-Fi, seat selection, or inflight entertainment if an airline fails to provide this service.

Teslag

5:21p, 4/24/24

Bye bye Spirit Airlines

C@LAg

5:23p, 4/24/24

you say that like it is a bad thing.

GAC06

5:26p, 4/24/24

Meanwhile Pete's ATC system is AFU. What about when flights are delayed or cancelled due to ATC understaffing or incompetence?

Teslag

5:28p, 4/24/24

In reply to C@LAg

I'm my life I've had two scary life threatening incidents in the air. The first was dropping into a Syrian outpost in a Blackhawk and the other was walking through a spirit airlines terminal to get to flight on American.

v1rotate92

5:30p, 4/24/24

Hilarious. The airline oligopoly they created will pass this on and charge passengers more for tix

Slick

Aggie95

5:33p, 4/24/24

If I'm the airlines I ask for those funds to come from FAA when their antiquated system causes delays, etc.

MemphisAg1

5:43p, 4/24/24

In reply to C@LAg

C@LAg said:

Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:
Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines "significant change." Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.

I travel all the time -- 50% away from home -- and I don't agree with this. Flights get canceled or delayed for many reasons beyond control of the carrier, with weather typically the biggest cause. Hell even Pete's screwed up FAA causes issues when they understaff air traffic control at some airports.

You can blame airlines for mechanical issues, but I don't want them cutting corners to keep me in a plane if it needs a timeout for an unexpected maintenance issue. Over time, passengers will reward airlines with better on time performance because they value the reliability. Not the discount passengers of course, but the other 85% of us that need to get to places on time.

Sometimes planes are late because a pilot or attendant gets sick while on their route. Is that really the airlines fault? They call in a backup but that can take a few hours for them to show up. Do you want the airlines getting tougher on their crews and trying to force sick pilots and attendants to keep flying. I don't.

Sometimes things don't run on time. In fact, a lot of the time they don't, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's somebody's fault.

Pete-the-breastfeeder and uncle Joe need to stay the hell out of this.

Ag87H2O

5:46p, 4/24/24

In reply to v1rotate92

Yep, just like raising taxes. Libs are too dumb to realize every penny of this cost will be passed on to the flying public and cause higher ticket prices.

FTAG 2000

5:49p, 4/24/24

Good way to make airfare too expensive for more Americans. Like every other policy of this administration.

Bird Poo

5:50p, 4/24/24

In reply to C@LAg

C@LAg said:
I have not read the legislation but if THIS is the case... I am for it.

NONE of these seem unreasonable, but of course the details are in the legislation.

"Passengers deserve to get their money back when an airline owes them without headaches or haggling," Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said in a press release on the new refund rule.

Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:
Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines "significant change." Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.

Significantly delayed baggage return: Passengers who file a mishandled baggage report will be entitled to a refund of their checked bag fee if it is not delivered within 12 hours of their domestic flight arriving at the gate, or 15-30 hours of their international flight arriving at the gate, depending on the length of the flight.

Extra services not provided: Passengers will be entitled to a refund for the fee they paid for an extra service such as Wi-Fi, seat selection, or inflight entertainment if an airline fails to provide this service.

So you're entitled to a refund if there is severe weather? The airlines will be happy to charge you a premium after refunding your original fare if you really need to get to your destination.

This will certainly raise costs across the board. Airlines cannot control the weather or ATC. This is stupid as F.

Science Denier

6:06p, 4/24/24

Want a refund? Spend more for a refundable ticket.

Sounds like now everyone is gonna have to pay for a refundable ticket.

LOL OLD

Four Seasons Landscaping

6:24p, 4/24/24

I tend to stick with Southwest because I like their service.

None of that sounds any different than what they already do?

Are there airlines that don't refund for canceled flights or the wifi fee if it isn't working?

peacedude

6:31p, 4/24/24

I flew almost 100 times in 6 months back in 1999.

Delays = 0

Something has changed.

Bubblez

6:38p, 4/24/24

This is a start, though we should adopt the EU regulations (which were also adopted by the UK post brexit). Passengers are far more protected over there, plus the industry is far more competitive with lower prices over there than we see here. You can fly from London to Rome on EasyJet for 37 GBP.

If you are stranded overnight, the airlines have a duty of care and pick up your hotel room and a meal no matter the reason for the delay.

If you end up being over 4 hours late due to the fault of the airline, they owe you 250 to 600 EUR cash depending upon the flight distance.

All of this, and the industry is still very competitive with dirt cheap airfares.

GAC06

6:43p, 4/24/24

In reply to peacedude

peacedude said:
I flew almost 100 times in 6 months back in 1999.

Delays = 0

Something has changed.

US airlines ontime performance in 1999: 76%

In 2023: 78%

Perhaps your memory over a quarter century is what changed

https://www.bts.gov/topics/airlines-and-airports/annual-airline-time-rankings-2003-2023

FlyRod

6:50p, 4/24/24

Truly egregious that gross mismanagement and incompetence should have consequences for those responsible.

Yesterday

6:52p, 4/24/24

All this means is more expensive flights and baggage fees. Airlines operate on razor thin margins. Every can't just absorb these costs, and they won't, we will pay for them.

AJ02

6:55p, 4/24/24

In reply to FTAG 2000

FTAG 2000 said:
Good way to make airfare too expensive for more Americans. Like every other policy of this administration.

I'm okay with that. Even if it means I have to pay more. Air travel has become just as bad as public transit in a major metro area. Maybe it'll price out some of the ghetto riffraff.

Eso si, Que es

7:01p, 4/24/24

In reply to FTAG 2000

FTAG 2000 said:
Good way to make airfare too expensive for more Americans. Like every other policy of this administration.

Cue the Slate article about how these changes disproportionately affects the blacks

Wait, that is only when it is a Republican law, this is (D)ifferent

TexasAggiesWin

7:11p, 4/24/24

peacedude

7:20p, 4/24/24

In reply to GAC06

Every flight I was on, Southwest and Alaska Air in Cali were never rescheduled in 1999 flying from Oakland or Sacramento to Burbank.

Of course the weather was nice, but otherwise there wasn't any issue. Wearing my 1998 sleeveless Maroon Out shirt let them know I meant business.

In 15 hours, I'd drive my Jeep 65 miles to the truck body shop, pick up the brand new box moving truck, drive it from 5am - 4:30pm (LA to San Fran), take the BART from San Fran to Oakland, fly back to Burbank, take the LA Metrolink train to Santa Clarita, walk a mile to retrieve my Jeep, and then drive 65 miles back home. Three days a week.

Ag with kids

11:32p, 4/24/24

In reply to Teslag

Teslag said:
Bye bye Spirit Airlines

Bye bye auto rebooking...

NE PA Ag

11:48p, 4/24/24

Here's what I don't understand about the new rules (not legislation, this is the DOT). So weather causes my original non-stop flight to be cancelled, they put me on a one hop to get home 6 hours late, and I am entitled to a refund?

That doesn't make sense at all. The airline did their best to accommodate me when an event out of their control caused the situation, and even though I am severely inconvenienced, I took a seat on one of their flights and got home. Am I missing something?

Old Army Ghost

12:04a, 4/25/24

In reply to NE PA Ag

yeah doesnt make sense because it isnt so

read the second post

Old Army has gone to hell.

Ag with kids

12:06a, 4/25/24

In reply to NE PA Ag

NE PA Ag said:
Here's what I don't understand about the new rules (not legislation, this is the DOT). So weather causes my original non-stop flight to be cancelled, they put me on a one hop to get home 6 hours late, and I am entitled to a refund?

That doesn't make sense at all. The airline did their best to accommodate me when an event out of their control caused the situation, and even though I am severely inconvenienced, I took a seat on one of their flights and got home. Am I missing something?

Yes.

They will no longer put you on that one hop flight. Figure out how to get home yourself now. Here's your refund though.

Now...just stating what will be the new normal.

What that airline did before was great service to help customers that were inconvenienced due to something out of their control.

But...if they have to refund you for that flight, there's zero reason for them to get you a new flight...

Also, cancellations will probably occur at the 2 hr and 59 min point after the original flight time.

Velvet Jones

12:10a, 4/25/24

Ag with kids

12:10a, 4/25/24

In reply to Velvet Jones

Velvet Jones said:

This is like holding up a cross to a vampire and then tossing holy water on them...

NE PA Ag

1:01a, 4/25/24

In reply to Old Army Ghost

Old Army Ghost said:
yeah doesnt make sense because it isnt so

read the second post

I read it again and read the press release. Nothing is mentioned about exceptions to the refund rules because of cancellations due to circumstances out of the Airlines control.

Muy

1:32a, 4/25/24

More broad brush regulations from the clowns who have never done whatever it is they are in charge of.

FCBlitz

3:06a, 4/25/24

In reply to MemphisAg1

MemphisAg1 said:
C@LAg said:

Under the rule, passengers are entitled to a refund for:
Canceled or significantly changed flights: Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered. For the first time, the rule defines "significant change." Significant changes to a flight include departure or arrival times that are more than 3 hours domestically and 6 hours internationally; departures or arrivals from a different airport; increases in the number of connections; instances where passengers are downgraded to a lower class of service; or connections at different airports or flights on different planes that are less accessible or accommodating to a person with a disability.
I travel all the time -- 50% away from home -- and I don't agree with this. Flights get canceled or delayed for many reasons beyond control of the carrier, with weather typically the biggest cause. Hell even Pete's screwed up FAA causes issues when they understaff air traffic control at some airports.

You can blame airlines for mechanical issues, but I don't want them cutting corners to keep me in a plane if it needs a timeout for an unexpected maintenance issue. Over time, passengers will reward airlines with better on time performance because they value the reliability. Not the discount passengers of course, but the other 85% of us that need to get to places on time.

Sometimes planes are late because a pilot or attendant gets sick while on their route. Is that really the airlines fault? They call in a backup but that can take a few hours for them to show up. Do you want the airlines getting tougher on their crews and trying to force sick pilots and attendants to keep flying. I don't.

Sometimes things don't run on time. In fact, a lot of the time they don't, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's somebody's fault.

Pete-the-breastfeeder and uncle Joe need to stay the hell out of this.

I travel world wide and am very fortunate to be able to. I am 119% against the government getting involved. Most of my travel is paid for by the Taxpayer so the actual cost to me doesn't affect me…..but these extra cost will drive ticket's even higher.

Why is it the Democrats are obsessed with driving cost up on the consumer for everything. Since Biden has been in office food, shelter and energy have enormously increased.

AtlAg05

6:51a, 4/25/24

In reply to FCBlitz

You steal someone's apple, wait a bit, and give it back for free. People will exclaim how benevolent you are!

AustinAg2K

7:10a, 4/25/24

In reply to Ag with kids

Ag with kids said:
NE PA Ag said:
Here's what I don't understand about the new rules (not legislation, this is the DOT). So weather causes my original non-stop flight to be cancelled, they put me on a one hop to get home 6 hours late, and I am entitled to a refund?

That doesn't make sense at all. The airline did their best to accommodate me when an event out of their control caused the situation, and even though I am severely inconvenienced, I took a seat on one of their flights and got home. Am I missing something?
Yes.

They will no longer put you on that one hop flight. Figure out how to get home yourself now. Here's your refund though.

Now...just stating what will be the new normal.

What that airline did before was great service to help customers that were inconvenienced due to something out of their control.

But...if they have to refund you for that flight, there's zero reason for them to get you a new flight...

Also, cancellations will probably occur at the 2 hr and 59 min point after the original flight time.

That's not how I read it. The way I read it is that if you are delayed more than 3 hours, you now have the option of saying f'it, I'll just drive. If you choose to take the alternate flight, you don't get your money back. If you choose to not to it, you do. It seems reasonable to me. You entered into an agreement with the airlines to get you to your destination by a specified time. If they can't honor that agreement, you are entitled to your money back.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe

8:31a, 4/25/24

Given the multiple entities involved, I see this happening. Yay govt getting involved while they hold your money deciding who was at fault. That's all this will accomplish.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy