In reply to chet98
She'll get the Pacifica PHEV and she'll like it
12:06p, 4/5/24
In reply to Guitarsoup
Guitarsoup said:
She'll get the Pacifica PHEV and she'll like it
12:46p, 4/5/24
In reply to chet98
PHEV is good if you are a one-car household and have a short daily commute where you can essentially use it like an EV except for road trips. It isn't as good as having one gas car and one EV though.
I had a PHEV Jeep for two years when my commute was shorter. A couple of downsides - on road trips the gas mileage was worse than a normal Jeep, due to the extra 500lb battery. The battery also cut into the cargo space. And having two different propulsion systems means lots more things that could break. I lost two full months over two years with it in the shop.
When my commute went beyond the Jeep's EV range (and when the death wobble started) I traded it in for 1 gas car and 1 EV that added up to around the cost of the Jeep. Now I have two cars that excel at their particular function, instead of one that is kind of good at both.
I had a PHEV Jeep for two years when my commute was shorter. A couple of downsides - on road trips the gas mileage was worse than a normal Jeep, due to the extra 500lb battery. The battery also cut into the cargo space. And having two different propulsion systems means lots more things that could break. I lost two full months over two years with it in the shop.
When my commute went beyond the Jeep's EV range (and when the death wobble started) I traded it in for 1 gas car and 1 EV that added up to around the cost of the Jeep. Now I have two cars that excel at their particular function, instead of one that is kind of good at both.
1:18p, 4/5/24
In reply to htownag08
The Ioniq 5 looks cool but the Ioniq 6 looks like @$$...and I have a Model Y so obviously I'm into ugly cars. Why did they make the front & back the same exact angle?htownag08 said:
Just curious if anyone has had experience with the Hyundai EV line? In the market for a new vehicle and this will primarily be a commuter car as we have a mini-van for any major road trips with the kiddos. I have circled Tesla Model Y right now but keep seeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 popping up on reviewer lists.
Curious if anyone has had experience or could provide insight as I weigh options. Test driving the Tesla Friday and a Hyundai on Saturday.
TIA
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1:27p, 4/5/24
In reply to drumboy
You mean like the (most recent, but awhile back now?) eclipse that looked like dog*****
And yes, that's a horrific design that should never left the drugged out drunken mind of whatever designer came up with that garbage, potentially as a joke.
drumboy said:The Ioniq 5 looks cool but the Ioniq 6 looks like @$$...and I have a Model Y so obviously I'm into ugly cars. Why did they make the front & back the same exact angle?htownag08 said:
Just curious if anyone has had experience with the Hyundai EV line? In the market for a new vehicle and this will primarily be a commuter car as we have a mini-van for any major road trips with the kiddos. I have circled Tesla Model Y right now but keep seeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 popping up on reviewer lists.
Curious if anyone has had experience or could provide insight as I weigh options. Test driving the Tesla Friday and a Hyundai on Saturday.
TIA
You mean like the (most recent, but awhile back now?) eclipse that looked like dog*****
And yes, that's a horrific design that should never left the drugged out drunken mind of whatever designer came up with that garbage, potentially as a joke.
1:34p, 4/5/24
In reply to WoMD
Haha. I first saw the Ioniq 6 on the freeway and did a double take thinking someone put a 911 wing their Sonata.WoMD said:drumboy said:The Ioniq 5 looks cool but the Ioniq 6 looks like @$$...and I have a Model Y so obviously I'm into ugly cars. Why did they make the front & back the same exact angle?htownag08 said:
Just curious if anyone has had experience with the Hyundai EV line? In the market for a new vehicle and this will primarily be a commuter car as we have a mini-van for any major road trips with the kiddos. I have circled Tesla Model Y right now but keep seeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 popping up on reviewer lists.
Curious if anyone has had experience or could provide insight as I weigh options. Test driving the Tesla Friday and a Hyundai on Saturday.
TIA
You mean like the (most recent, but awhile back now?) eclipse that looked like dog*****
And yes, that's a horrific design that should never left the drugged out drunken mind of whatever designer came up with that garbage, potentially as a joke.
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1:50p, 4/5/24
In reply to drumboy
Hey Tesla guy, what ever happened to the Model X with the gull wings? I'm in Austin so see more Teslas than I can count (including the cybertruck, speaking of hideous vehicles) but I swear I never see an X. Unless I confuse it for a Y since they look somewhat similar I think.
1:51p, 4/5/24
In reply to GAC06
#1 Electric only driving experience is different. People like it, and they're willing to pay for it. Regular hybrids don't offer this and a purely cost based analysis doesn't get the whole picture. But even on that . . .
#2 you have to include the wall charge in your MPG calculations. On a combined gas+wall cost per mile basis they can easily outperform a regular hybrid depending on your use case.
The ideal plug-in buyer can cover all their weekly driving with just wall charge, and then on weekends when you need to supplement with some gas, you can do that. The occasional long road trip gets worse MPG, but not enough to offset the normal weekly benefit. There are A LOT of people that fit this use case.
Obviously you have to factor in what your actual weekday/weekend mileages are. It's not going to make sense for everyone, but the math is pretty easy to do. A lot depend on whether you want the plug-in to be your family workhorse or the car that used only when one person needs it. Again, easy math.
You're missing a couple of big things.GAC06 said:
Don't really see the point of PHEV. If the goal is fuel efficiency, a regular hybrid gets you mostly there without hauling as big a battery around. If the goal is simplicity, performance, and freedom from gas stations, an EV is the ticket. If I needed range beyond what EV's offer regularly I'd get a regular ICE or hybrid, not a plug in
#1 Electric only driving experience is different. People like it, and they're willing to pay for it. Regular hybrids don't offer this and a purely cost based analysis doesn't get the whole picture. But even on that . . .
#2 you have to include the wall charge in your MPG calculations. On a combined gas+wall cost per mile basis they can easily outperform a regular hybrid depending on your use case.
The ideal plug-in buyer can cover all their weekly driving with just wall charge, and then on weekends when you need to supplement with some gas, you can do that. The occasional long road trip gets worse MPG, but not enough to offset the normal weekly benefit. There are A LOT of people that fit this use case.
Obviously you have to factor in what your actual weekday/weekend mileages are. It's not going to make sense for everyone, but the math is pretty easy to do. A lot depend on whether you want the plug-in to be your family workhorse or the car that used only when one person needs it. Again, easy math.
2:04p, 4/5/24
In reply to chet98
The Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023 so clearly a lot of them on the road.
Not in Austin, but I see Model Xs often; they're easily confused w/ the Y on the freeway, the front has a little grill, the rear door handles are on the front of the door, and there's a spoiler that pops up. Also don't like the doors.chet98 said:
Hey Tesla guy, what ever happened to the Model X with the gull wings? I'm in Austin so see more Teslas than I can count (including the cybertruck, speaking of hideous vehicles) but I swear I never see an X. Unless I confuse it for a Y since they look somewhat similar I think.
The Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023 so clearly a lot of them on the road.
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2:22p, 4/5/24
In reply to drumboy
I'd imagine the novelty of the X's doors would wear off pretty quickly.
2:24p, 4/5/24
In reply to chet98
Depends. about the only way to get automated doors outside of a minivan.
7:41p, 4/5/24
Software's better in the Tesla. Charging network is better in the Tesla. Charging in the Ioniq is better in the limit. Ioniq uses an 800v battery pack, meaning the vehicle can peak charge substantially faster than any Tesla.
Hyundai will get access to the Tesla network 2025 with new models integrating the NACS charger for the 2025 Model Year vehicles. The problem with that is that Hyundai runs an 800v batter pack, and Tesla's network is 400v, which means the Hyundai will cap out <100 kW charging unless they change their battery pack configuration.
If you like the Hyundai and can wait to see what their 2025 model line up looks like, I'd do that, because it's possible they reconfigure their battery pack to work better with the Tesla network, and if they do then from a pure charging experience Hyundai beats the Tesla. They're still going to be worse off from a software standpoint and don't see that changing any time soon.
Hyundai will get access to the Tesla network 2025 with new models integrating the NACS charger for the 2025 Model Year vehicles. The problem with that is that Hyundai runs an 800v batter pack, and Tesla's network is 400v, which means the Hyundai will cap out <100 kW charging unless they change their battery pack configuration.
If you like the Hyundai and can wait to see what their 2025 model line up looks like, I'd do that, because it's possible they reconfigure their battery pack to work better with the Tesla network, and if they do then from a pure charging experience Hyundai beats the Tesla. They're still going to be worse off from a software standpoint and don't see that changing any time soon.
7:56p, 4/5/24
In reply to chet98
Before I bought my M3, I was mostly worried that those gull wings would break the moment that the warranty was up. I actually haven't seen too many complaints though. Maybe because their owners aren't bumming around r/teslaloungechet98 said:
I'd imagine the novelty of the X's doors would wear off pretty quickly.
10:02p, 4/5/24
In reply to hph6203
Interesting note. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately our oldest car is not gonna make it till the end of the year due to some mechanical issues. So I'll have to pull the trigger sooner vs. later.
Drove the 3 and Y today - very unique experience but also really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed the extra room the Y provides and ride was great.
Hoping to hit Hyundai tomorrow!
Drove the 3 and Y today - very unique experience but also really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed the extra room the Y provides and ride was great.
Hoping to hit Hyundai tomorrow!
12:25p, 4/6/24
In reply to Red Pear Felipe
I have a Mini Cooper. I wanted a small, sporty 2 door and there aren't a lot of options for that in EVs.
2:30p, 4/6/24
In reply to EMY92
I had an EV rental a few weeks ago too. I had regen braking figured out after about 4 stop lights.
An EV rental is not great though. The main benefit of an EV is that you wake up with a "full tank" every morning. Probably 90% or more of rentals are parked in a hotel parking lot with no way to charge over night. I decided to pick up dinner and charge while I ate dinner in the car.
EMY92 said:That's all great, but not so easy in a rental when you are completely unfamiliar with the interface. It's tough enough getting a rental from any brand you're not used to, but most ICE vehicles are close enough where you can figure out 90% of the stuff. EVs are different enough that you may only figure out 60% of the stuff while you have it.Guitarsoup said:1939 said:
Had a Tesla rental the other day and hated it. The regen braking damn near gave me whiplash, the key situation is dumb, and not having any buttons sucked. Also I'm hoping that I just couldn't figure it out, but the AC would only do auto mode, I couldn't adjust the fan speed for more than a few minutes at a time.
You can turn off regen braking, if you want. But you can also just never touch the brake pedal, too. You can have it mild, as well. It is one of those things you get used to.
My phone is my key, which is pretty fantastic in practice. Walk up to my car, open the door, get in. No hassle no fob. I have auto deadbolts at home, so I don't actually carry any keys unless driving my 98 Landcruiser and that just has the one key on a keyring.
If I want the fan on high, I just set the car at 60 degrees. Gets too cold, switch to 68. Additionally, with the app, I can set the temp I want the car to be at before I get there and get a push notification when it it there. Park in the sun all day, hit the button on your phone to turn on the AC and it will be cool and feel great when you get in. Snowing outside? Turn on the heat and seat heaters before you get in. Pretty easy.
I had an EV rental a few weeks ago too. I had regen braking figured out after about 4 stop lights.
An EV rental is not great though. The main benefit of an EV is that you wake up with a "full tank" every morning. Probably 90% or more of rentals are parked in a hotel parking lot with no way to charge over night. I decided to pick up dinner and charge while I ate dinner in the car.
2:48p, 4/6/24
In reply to 1876er
All the inconvenience without any of the benefit. Same cost to fill up per mile (roughly), takes longer, and shorter range. Pretty significant misrepresentation of the ownership experience.
7:52p, 4/6/24
In reply to hph6203
Avis had free superchargering when I rented from them.
hph6203 said:
All the inconvenience without any of the benefit. Same cost to fill up per mile (roughly), takes longer, and shorter range. Pretty significant misrepresentation of the ownership experience.
Avis had free superchargering when I rented from them.
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10:11a, 4/7/24
In reply to steve00
How's the EV Mini treating you? I'd figured maybe less issues than their ICE counterparts.
11:41a, 4/7/24
In reply to Red Pear Felipe
It has been great. In a little over a year I have about 7k miles on it with zero problems. I put around 20 miles on it each day going to work, so I just charge once or twice a week.
Range is very low, as it is a tiny car with a tiny battery, so it only makes sense for quick, local commuting.
It is quick and fun to drive, and I never have to carpool, as you can't fit in the backseat if you have legs.
One thing that i really like is that it looks exactly like a regular Mini. Other than the lack of exhaust pipes and a very small e badge on the back, you'd never know it is an EV. I prefer that to the current trend of designing EVs in a way that shouts out "HEY - LOOK AT ME - I'M DRIVING AN ELECTRIC CAR!".
Range is very low, as it is a tiny car with a tiny battery, so it only makes sense for quick, local commuting.
It is quick and fun to drive, and I never have to carpool, as you can't fit in the backseat if you have legs.
One thing that i really like is that it looks exactly like a regular Mini. Other than the lack of exhaust pipes and a very small e badge on the back, you'd never know it is an EV. I prefer that to the current trend of designing EVs in a way that shouts out "HEY - LOOK AT ME - I'M DRIVING AN ELECTRIC CAR!".
7:56p, 4/7/24
If you want to get a Tesla, wait for the update in 6 months if you can. I had an 2020 and 2023 Tesla MY and there has been great battery improvements.
Currently at 7 months and 22K miles. Home charger is a must. Charged it full to 318 miles, which is essentially what is was when I bought it, so almost zero degradation. Much better than my 2020 models that dropped 10% at similar milage.
Drove from Austin to Dallas for 200 miles (all highway) and had 75 miles left. Hotel had a level 2 charger, so charged it to 318 again, drove back home with 80 miles left. Currently charging, and will be at 80% tomorrow. More hotels are putting in level 2 complimentary charging.
If the hotel did not have a charger, I had a choice of 3 superchargers on the way back to Austin. Would have taken my 20 minute to get about 200 miles enough to comfortably get home.
Once you get comfortable with a Tesla and superchargers, traveling anywhere from Austin to 200 miles a way is a piece of cake.
Unless you really hate the Tesla look, no reason to get anything else. Its a superior car to anything available, supercharger network takes all range anxiety away. Yes, other cars will have access to the supercharger but who knows how convenient that will be.
Currently at 7 months and 22K miles. Home charger is a must. Charged it full to 318 miles, which is essentially what is was when I bought it, so almost zero degradation. Much better than my 2020 models that dropped 10% at similar milage.
Drove from Austin to Dallas for 200 miles (all highway) and had 75 miles left. Hotel had a level 2 charger, so charged it to 318 again, drove back home with 80 miles left. Currently charging, and will be at 80% tomorrow. More hotels are putting in level 2 complimentary charging.
If the hotel did not have a charger, I had a choice of 3 superchargers on the way back to Austin. Would have taken my 20 minute to get about 200 miles enough to comfortably get home.
Once you get comfortable with a Tesla and superchargers, traveling anywhere from Austin to 200 miles a way is a piece of cake.
Unless you really hate the Tesla look, no reason to get anything else. Its a superior car to anything available, supercharger network takes all range anxiety away. Yes, other cars will have access to the supercharger but who knows how convenient that will be.
10:45p, 4/7/24
Sick kiddo kept me from getting out to look at other cars - but the Tesla does seem hard to beat.
My car is literally on its last legs - so I'd like to wait as long as I can but that's up in the air. I'm wondering if the model Y will also lose the tax break on this next model like what happened to the 3.
My car is literally on its last legs - so I'd like to wait as long as I can but that's up in the air. I'm wondering if the model Y will also lose the tax break on this next model like what happened to the 3.
1:09a, 4/8/24
In reply to htownag08
Wouldn't expect the Model Y to lose the tax credit. It's their highest volume model and they would prioritize it getting domestic produce battery cells over their other models. Model 3 lost it because it uses Chinese batteries.
I'm personally waiting as best I can for the refresh, but don't expect it until next year.
I'm personally waiting as best I can for the refresh, but don't expect it until next year.
7:44p, 4/12/24
Finally got a chance to drive the Ioniq 5 and a Mach-E today.
Both very nice - the Mach-E was $20k more than the model Y - just blew my mind.
Ioniq 5 was really nice and much more tech savvy than j was anticipating. I'm still leaning towards the MY but I was definitely impressed with the interior quality of the Hyundai.
Both very nice - the Mach-E was $20k more than the model Y - just blew my mind.
Ioniq 5 was really nice and much more tech savvy than j was anticipating. I'm still leaning towards the MY but I was definitely impressed with the interior quality of the Hyundai.
8:58p, 4/16/24
In reply to drumboy
I'm guessing because they are copying Audi and Mercedes? Both those makers have more than one model where they slope off the front and rear with same angle. It's been a pretty prevalent design for a few years now.drumboy said:The Ioniq 5 looks cool but the Ioniq 6 looks like @$$...and I have a Model Y so obviously I'm into ugly cars. Why did they make the front & back the same exact angle?htownag08 said:
Just curious if anyone has had experience with the Hyundai EV line? In the market for a new vehicle and this will primarily be a commuter car as we have a mini-van for any major road trips with the kiddos. I have circled Tesla Model Y right now but keep seeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 popping up on reviewer lists.
Curious if anyone has had experience or could provide insight as I weigh options. Test driving the Tesla Friday and a Hyundai on Saturday.
TIA
9:11p, 4/16/24
In reply to YouBet
Maybe. Or it just looks like ass.
YouBet said:I'm guessing because they are copying Audi and Mercedes? Both those makers have more than one model where they slope off the front and rear with same angle. It's been a pretty prevalent design for a few years now.drumboy said:The Ioniq 5 looks cool but the Ioniq 6 looks like @$$...and I have a Model Y so obviously I'm into ugly cars. Why did they make the front & back the same exact angle?htownag08 said:
Just curious if anyone has had experience with the Hyundai EV line? In the market for a new vehicle and this will primarily be a commuter car as we have a mini-van for any major road trips with the kiddos. I have circled Tesla Model Y right now but keep seeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 popping up on reviewer lists.
Curious if anyone has had experience or could provide insight as I weigh options. Test driving the Tesla Friday and a Hyundai on Saturday.
TIA
Maybe. Or it just looks like ass.
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10:37p, 4/16/24
In reply to steve00
Is having two cars depreciate at the same time, instead of just one, helping you with those EV vs Gas savings?
Asking for a friend.
steve00 said:
I have an EV, and it is superior to a gas car for my commute and tooling around town. In all of my long drive scenarios, my gas car is better.
Is having two cars depreciate at the same time, instead of just one, helping you with those EV vs Gas savings?
Asking for a friend.
10:55p, 4/16/24
In reply to satexas
Obviously the depreciation on two cars is doubly worse than one similarly priced car, especially when that one car is one of the best at low depreciation.
My wife and I have been a one car household for around 6-7 years, and it has pros and cons that are very situationally dependant. Last year the cons took over, so we got a second car.
I'm not sure that I ever argued fiscal benefits though. If I did, please have your friend let me know.
satexas said:steve00 said:
I have an EV, and it is superior to a gas car for my commute and tooling around town. In all of my long drive scenarios, my gas car is better.
Is having two cars depreciate at the same time, instead of just one, helping you with those EV vs Gas savings?
Asking for a friend.
Obviously the depreciation on two cars is doubly worse than one similarly priced car, especially when that one car is one of the best at low depreciation.
My wife and I have been a one car household for around 6-7 years, and it has pros and cons that are very situationally dependant. Last year the cons took over, so we got a second car.
I'm not sure that I ever argued fiscal benefits though. If I did, please have your friend let me know.
3:15p, 4/18/24
If you are planning on doing any road tripping, then get the Tesla. Yes that includes if you only plan on road tripping just once a year and also includes the fact that Hyundai will have access to Tesla Superchargers sometime in the near future. Because even once Hyundai has access, that does not automatically make it the exact same fast charging experience that you would get with the Model Y.
For example, Ford right now technically has access to Tesla Superchargers but it isn't to all superchargers. They do not have access to any V2 or Urban chargers, and do not have access to all V3 chargers. This results on Ford only having access to about 60% of Tesla entire network. They are also charged a higher price rate compared to Tesla vehicles. Additionally specific to Hyundai and Kia, you'll get much slower charging speeds compared to Tesla because Hyundai did not optimally design their 800V architectural to be charged through Teslas 400V superchargers. Porsche however can fully utilize Teslas supercharger speeds even on 800V since they did design for that.
For example, Ford right now technically has access to Tesla Superchargers but it isn't to all superchargers. They do not have access to any V2 or Urban chargers, and do not have access to all V3 chargers. This results on Ford only having access to about 60% of Tesla entire network. They are also charged a higher price rate compared to Tesla vehicles. Additionally specific to Hyundai and Kia, you'll get much slower charging speeds compared to Tesla because Hyundai did not optimally design their 800V architectural to be charged through Teslas 400V superchargers. Porsche however can fully utilize Teslas supercharger speeds even on 800V since they did design for that.
3:23p, 4/18/24
In reply to steve00
But for many others that really want/need one vehicle to do serve all their driving needs and want that vehicle to be an EV, then Tesla is the only way to go. Because it takes just that one road trip that you only take one time a year to find out why all OEMs have jumped the CCS ship and gotten onboard the Tesla ship.
If you can or want to have one EV and one ICE that serve all your driving needs, then yeah get any EV for daily driving and use ICE for road trips.steve00 said:
I agree that the Tesla charging network is larger and faster than any other network.
Where I disagree is on how much that matters to the average EV owner. 80% of charging happens at home. Charging at work is hard to quantify as clearly, but seems to be around 15% from what I can find.
That doesn't leave much room for the better Tesla public network to add value.
And I say all this as someone who charges 0% at home. I am a renter, so I won't spend the money to install home charging. I charge 99% at ChargePoint chargers at my office. It is obviously not as cheap as charging at home, but it is effortless. A couple times a week I park closer to the office door, and I always have a charged car.
All I'm saying is that anyone who says the Tesla charging network makes it a slam dunk to buy a Tesla over some other brand is wrong. The network is a plus, but there are lots of pros and cons when comparing Tesla vs other options.
But for many others that really want/need one vehicle to do serve all their driving needs and want that vehicle to be an EV, then Tesla is the only way to go. Because it takes just that one road trip that you only take one time a year to find out why all OEMs have jumped the CCS ship and gotten onboard the Tesla ship.
3:44p, 4/18/24
In reply to cav14
Then on the way home, we stopped at Bucees in Bastrop, which has a supercharger. Went in, went to the bathroom, got snacks, unplugged and made it home no problem.
These middle-range trips really aren't problems. The trips like Houston to the panhandle or Big Bend or out of state are the ones that would suck.
Just a little anecdote.
Most of my trips are just within Texas and we took a new one this weekend. Kingwood (NE Houston) to Fredericksburg for a wedding. I charged to 100% night before. Tesla wanted me to drive to the supercharger in Johnson City. As we got closer to Austin, my wife wanted to stop at Target to get something because she's a middle-class white woman and it's a Target. Just happened to be that the Target at the exit to Johnson City had a Supercharger. So plugged it in there and she shopped.cav14 said:If you can or want to have one EV and one ICE that serve all your driving needs, then yeah get any EV for daily driving and use ICE for road trips.steve00 said:
I agree that the Tesla charging network is larger and faster than any other network.
Where I disagree is on how much that matters to the average EV owner. 80% of charging happens at home. Charging at work is hard to quantify as clearly, but seems to be around 15% from what I can find.
That doesn't leave much room for the better Tesla public network to add value.
And I say all this as someone who charges 0% at home. I am a renter, so I won't spend the money to install home charging. I charge 99% at ChargePoint chargers at my office. It is obviously not as cheap as charging at home, but it is effortless. A couple times a week I park closer to the office door, and I always have a charged car.
All I'm saying is that anyone who says the Tesla charging network makes it a slam dunk to buy a Tesla over some other brand is wrong. The network is a plus, but there are lots of pros and cons when comparing Tesla vs other options.
But for many others that really want/need one vehicle to do serve all their driving needs and want that vehicle to be an EV, then Tesla is the only way to go. Because it takes just that one road trip that you only take one time a year to find out why all OEMs have jumped the CCS ship and gotten onboard the Tesla ship.
Then on the way home, we stopped at Bucees in Bastrop, which has a supercharger. Went in, went to the bathroom, got snacks, unplugged and made it home no problem.
These middle-range trips really aren't problems. The trips like Houston to the panhandle or Big Bend or out of state are the ones that would suck.
Just a little anecdote.
4:05p, 4/18/24
In reply to Guitarsoup
Here's the route to BigBend, a little out of the way and I'd be doing 65 out west to save the battery.
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