I recently bought some knock off alpha gripz on Amazon to see if I can gain some addition grip strength that is transferable to deadlift gainz. Will have to report progress here in a couple months.
10:16a, 8/30/23
In reply to 10andBOUNCE
Are you over under? Hook grip? Or double overhand?10andBOUNCE said:
I recently bought some knock off alpha gripz on Amazon to see if I can gain some addition grip strength that is transferable to deadlift gainz. Will have to report progress here in a couple months.
2:44p, 8/30/23
Any of you guys just use chalk for grip? In all my years of deadlifting, I've never used anything beyond that and I've never failed a deadlift due to losing my grip. I also always use a mixed grip. I know a lot of commercial gyms don't like you using chalk, but I recently started using liquid chalk, which seems to work fine.
2:54p, 8/30/23
In reply to 10andBOUNCE
Maybe its time to try the mixed grip or hook grip?10andBOUNCE said:
Regular double overhand
3:33p, 8/30/23
In reply to Farmer1906
As I said before, I just feel like straps are eliminating part of the lift. For me anyways, if I need help gripping it, it's too heavy. Instead of trying to progress with weight more than I can hold, I will typically do some kind of deficit work for additional challenge if needed.
I do use chalk for sure.
I do use chalk for sure.
3:35p, 8/30/23
In reply to Tex117
I used to use mixed grip all the time. I stopped when I tweaked my hip/piriformis. I don't know for sure but I think less than optimal form from pulling mixed was the cause. Anyway, it's more of just a fun personal challenge to just go straight overhand and no straps.
3:36p, 8/30/23
In reply to 10andBOUNCE
I didn't check the page before.
I see where you are coming from, but your also letting a small muscles hold you back a little from developing others.
I see where you are coming from, but your also letting a small muscles hold you back a little from developing others.
9:26p, 8/30/23
In reply to 10andBOUNCE
Hook grip not an option either?
Either way, fair enough, but know that when you get heavy enough, even all the strong men" use straps.
10andBOUNCE said:
I used to use mixed grip all the time. I stopped when I tweaked my hip/piriformis. I don't know for sure but I think less than optimal form from pulling mixed was the cause. Anyway, it's more of just a fun personal challenge to just go straight overhand and no straps.
Hook grip not an option either?
Either way, fair enough, but know that when you get heavy enough, even all the strong men" use straps.
6:11a, 8/31/23
Just a friendly reminder, you are prone to rupturing a bicep with a mixed grip. I've seen it happen several times.
Go to about 1:50
Go to about 1:50
Class of '94
6:29a, 8/31/23
In reply to Hoosegow
I have seen way too many of these videos and almost all of them tearing a bicep are with mixed grip. It is probably irrational but I will never use it because of that lol
I don't do traditional deadlifts so that probably helps...
Hoose - you ever do supinated grip barbell rows? I have had them in my program before and feel like they hit lats a little better but I also think it puts a lot of strain on the biceps. I normally do heavy T-bar or barbell over hand grip but will occasionally incorporate them in for change or if the program I am doing calls for it. Just curious if you have any of your thoughts on it?
I don't do traditional deadlifts so that probably helps...
Hoose - you ever do supinated grip barbell rows? I have had them in my program before and feel like they hit lats a little better but I also think it puts a lot of strain on the biceps. I normally do heavy T-bar or barbell over hand grip but will occasionally incorporate them in for change or if the program I am doing calls for it. Just curious if you have any of your thoughts on it?
8:28a, 8/31/23
In reply to ttha_aggie_09
If you are competing you almost have to use a mixed grip or a hook grip. If you are not, it doesn't really matter. The mixed grip is superior to the double overhand because the bar is always fighting against itsefl, but is prone to bicep ruptures. The hook grip - eff that. I tried and tried to learn the hook grip having torn my left bicep when I was 40 (changing a tire, not lifting). It was too painful and I don't think my hands are big enough, either. Everybody in my lifting group has tried the hook grip. Everyone went back to a mixed grip.
As for your grip question on the rows, understand this is coming from a powerlifting perspective, I don't see much benefit from a suppinated grip row. For overall strength, if you are wanting big lats, pull ups, pull ups and more pull ups. If your are looking for something just to tweak some stimulus targets, sure, it makes sense. Hell, if you just like to do them, by all means do them. I think curls are one of the most overused worthless exercises that is out there. If you don't believe me, answer this question. If curls worked to get big arm, given the amount of time the average gym rat spends on curls, there should be tons of bicep monsters out there. Don't get me wrong, I still have to do them from time to time, because I'm still brainwashed a little. To get back to my point, if you are wanting bigger lats, bigger arms, bigger legs, focus on compound movements and just get overall bigger.
That was way too detailed, but not completely understanding your question, I rambled. If your question was you are wanting more work on your lats - pull ups, pull ups, pull ups. If you are just wanting a different stimuli, then there should be no harm in it.
As for your grip question on the rows, understand this is coming from a powerlifting perspective, I don't see much benefit from a suppinated grip row. For overall strength, if you are wanting big lats, pull ups, pull ups and more pull ups. If your are looking for something just to tweak some stimulus targets, sure, it makes sense. Hell, if you just like to do them, by all means do them. I think curls are one of the most overused worthless exercises that is out there. If you don't believe me, answer this question. If curls worked to get big arm, given the amount of time the average gym rat spends on curls, there should be tons of bicep monsters out there. Don't get me wrong, I still have to do them from time to time, because I'm still brainwashed a little. To get back to my point, if you are wanting bigger lats, bigger arms, bigger legs, focus on compound movements and just get overall bigger.
That was way too detailed, but not completely understanding your question, I rambled. If your question was you are wanting more work on your lats - pull ups, pull ups, pull ups. If you are just wanting a different stimuli, then there should be no harm in it.
Class of '94
8:34a, 8/31/23
In reply to Hoosegow
No you answered my question perfectly - thank you!
I think they have been in a few programs to "prep" the elbows or warm them up right before going into bicep exercises (push day). I've always just found them to be a variation that places more emphasis on the biceps, lowering the weight I am able to row, and then wondering why the hell I am doing them in the first place.
I almost exclusively focus on over hand grip (Barbell or T-Bar) or neutral grip rows (Meadows Row/Trap Bar Row/Machine Row/Dumbell Row) but wanted to bounce the idea off of you.
I appreciate it!
I think they have been in a few programs to "prep" the elbows or warm them up right before going into bicep exercises (push day). I've always just found them to be a variation that places more emphasis on the biceps, lowering the weight I am able to row, and then wondering why the hell I am doing them in the first place.
I almost exclusively focus on over hand grip (Barbell or T-Bar) or neutral grip rows (Meadows Row/Trap Bar Row/Machine Row/Dumbell Row) but wanted to bounce the idea off of you.
I appreciate it!
8:40a, 8/31/23
No worries, The grip question got me thinking about the past. Looked up this guy on Youtube. He was part of the group that I trained with for several years. He tore his bicep deadlifting in a competition. After trying so hard to go to a hook grip, he went back to the mixed grip. He was easilty the strogest guy in our group. I had bigger numbers, but I competed equipped. It's like competing in two different classes in a drag race.
By the way - you can see hoose in the video.
By the way - you can see hoose in the video.
Class of '94
10:38a, 8/31/23
In reply to Hoosegow
I've been working on my form for months, and its still garbage. (Low bar).
Man....Do you have any tips for tall guys with long femurs/short torso for squatting?Hoosegow said:
No worries, The grip question got me thinking about the past. Looked up this guy on Youtube. He was part of the group that I trained with for several years. He tore his bicep deadlifting in a competition. After trying so hard to go to a hook grip, he went back to the mixed grip. He was easilty the strogest guy in our group. I had bigger numbers, but I competed equipped. It's like competing in two different classes in a drag race.
By the way - you can see hoose in the video.
I've been working on my form for months, and its still garbage. (Low bar).
1:11p, 8/31/23
In reply to Tex117
Without seeing you squat, not really. It could be weak hips, weak back, too narrow of a stance, footplacement, grip, form...
Class of '94
2:20p, 8/31/23
In reply to Hoosegow
Ugh. Yeah. i hear ya. Everything is fine, tight and strong till parallel, but anything past that to IPF depth, it all falls apart. Hips further back? Im off balance and either (i) fall forward trying to get it all over the midfoot, or (ii) everythign is too far back and I have zero power as a feel like Im about to fall over.
Getting pretty frustrated. Been at this for like 6 months, not adding a ton of weight (but trying to keep form correct), I'm 6'5" long femurs, short torso, and tall hips.
Hoosegow said:
Without seeing you squat, not really. It could be weak hips, weak back, too narrow of a stance, footplacement, grip, form...
Ugh. Yeah. i hear ya. Everything is fine, tight and strong till parallel, but anything past that to IPF depth, it all falls apart. Hips further back? Im off balance and either (i) fall forward trying to get it all over the midfoot, or (ii) everythign is too far back and I have zero power as a feel like Im about to fall over.
Getting pretty frustrated. Been at this for like 6 months, not adding a ton of weight (but trying to keep form correct), I'm 6'5" long femurs, short torso, and tall hips.
4:19p, 8/31/23
In reply to Tex117
When I catch myself losing balance, I really try to focus on my feet and screwing them into the ground/focus on ripping the ground apart between my feet.
This usually helps me keep the bar over midfoot and keeps me from falling forward, which is what I usually have issues with on balancing my low bar squat.
Also, I'm assuming you are wearing totally flat shoes/doing it barefoot, but if not obviously that is something easy you can address.
This usually helps me keep the bar over midfoot and keeps me from falling forward, which is what I usually have issues with on balancing my low bar squat.
Also, I'm assuming you are wearing totally flat shoes/doing it barefoot, but if not obviously that is something easy you can address.
4:46p, 8/31/23
In reply to CC09LawAg
I wear the slightly lifted heeled weightlifting shoes.
I just don't understand the ripping the ground apart with my feet cue. It puts a bizarre pressure on my knees. Pressing through the whole foot is something Im going to be mindful of tonight. I have a tendency to get up on my toes.CC09LawAg said:
When I catch myself losing balance, I really try to focus on my feet and screwing them into the ground/focus on ripping the ground apart between my feet.
This usually helps me keep the bar over midfoot and keeps me from falling forward, which is what I usually have issues with on balancing my low bar squat.
Also, I'm assuming you are wearing totally flat shoes/doing it barefoot, but if not obviously that is something easy you can address.
I wear the slightly lifted heeled weightlifting shoes.
5:15p, 8/31/23
Rip the floor apart is a bad cue if you dont know the corresponding movement. To understand what it means, put a towel on the floor. Get into your normal stance on the towel. Try to grip the towel with your toes. Then try to rip the towel apart without your heals coming up. You will feel like you look stupid, but the muscles will respond accordingly. Once you get that, you will understand rip the floor apart.
IF and i mean IF, your only concern is big weight, box squat with chains or bands. Learn to explode off of the box without losing tightness. Your numbers WILL go up.
Finally, use a cambered bar with no chains or bands.
It will humble you and show everywhere you are messing up.
IF and i mean IF, your only concern is big weight, box squat with chains or bands. Learn to explode off of the box without losing tightness. Your numbers WILL go up.
Finally, use a cambered bar with no chains or bands.
It will humble you and show everywhere you are messing up.
Class of '94
5:21p, 8/31/23
In reply to Hoosegow
Im not worried about a ton of weight yet, I just want to get this form right (Im using enough to challenge me so I'm not just relaxing and then snapping it back up because its so light).
Thats for talking this out. Ive been incredibly frustrated for months. I just cant get down past parallel without it all absolutely falling apart.
Interesting, but still, I feel like if I did this, it would put alot of lateral pressure on the outside of my knees. (Like when I try and "rip the floor apart").Hoosegow said:
Rip the floor apart is a bad cue if you dont know the corresponding movement. To understand what it means, put a towel on the floor. Get into your normal stance on the towel. Try to grip the towel with your toes. Then try to rip the towel apart without your heals coming up. You will feel like you look stupid, but the muscles will respond accordingly. Once you get that, you will understand rip the floor apart.
IF and i mean IF, your only concern is big weight, box squat with chains or bands. Learn to explode off of the box without losing tightness. Your numbers WILL go up.
Finally, use a cambered bar with no chains or bands.
It will humble you and show everywhere you are messing up.
Im not worried about a ton of weight yet, I just want to get this form right (Im using enough to challenge me so I'm not just relaxing and then snapping it back up because its so light).
Thats for talking this out. Ive been incredibly frustrated for months. I just cant get down past parallel without it all absolutely falling apart.
6:25p, 8/31/23
Thats where you are wrong. Try it with no weight. Put a towel on the floor. Try to grab it with your toes. Use your hips, outer quads and calve to try and rip the towel apart. You dont even have to squat more than half way and you will feel the difference.
So the lift and the cues....
Damn it is so hard to explain...
So the lift and the cues....
Damn it is so hard to explain...
Class of '94
6:26p, 8/31/23
In reply to Tex117
I'm not on Hoose's level at all and totally defer to him on lifting heavy stuff, but I would think about losing the elevated heel for low bar squats. I think it's a good thing for your goals with a high bar squat, but it seems like it may be counterproductive for low bar technique.
10:07p, 8/31/23
I'm definitely no powerlifter, but I also think simply stripping the weight down until you truly can squat below paralell and start your journey back upwards in weight from there over time will give you better overall strength and mobility. I don't squat heavy at all, but controlling weight with squatting well below parallel has given me amazing mobility and still develops muscle
You may already be doing this anyway, so apologies if this seems simplistic
You may already be doing this anyway, so apologies if this seems simplistic
10:28p, 8/31/23
In reply to True Anomaly
This for sure. When I felt the aches and pains of bad form, I would deload quite a bit and work my way back up and it always seemed to sort itself out.
The other thing I just thought of that I have done is done some unilateral leg work every few months when I take a break from lifting heavy - Bulgarian split squats, lunges, one leg straight leg deadlifts, ATG split squats…not sure if there's any correlation there but my depth on my squats has definitely improved over the past year.
The other thing I just thought of that I have done is done some unilateral leg work every few months when I take a break from lifting heavy - Bulgarian split squats, lunges, one leg straight leg deadlifts, ATG split squats…not sure if there's any correlation there but my depth on my squats has definitely improved over the past year.
10:38a, 9/1/23
In reply to Hoosegow
And last night, I did have a break through and was able to hit IPF depth with challenging weight (for me). I have to start at the top of the squat with breaking at the hips first...load up my hamstrings...then lower...feeling that tension the whole time. As I lower, I push out the knees, and keep riding it down...then...one last push out with the knees to hit depth and drive up with everything thought being HIPS HIPS HIPS. (I want to be in my quads). Being so tall (with tall hips and long femur), my butt is in another zip code. That takes some getting used to.
In a way, my knee pain helps a bit as it gives me a tactile que that if it starts hurting, I know im too far forward. If im in my hips, it doesn't hurt.
I know better squatters break at the knees and hips and the same time, but that's not working for me right now as I want to be in my quads...I need the tactile cue of my hamstrings tightening.
Its very hard to explain! And its easy to do it this way. I have no problem hitting depth at light weight. I needed a little resistance to really commit to this.Hoosegow said:
Thats where you are wrong. Try it with no weight. Put a towel on the floor. Try to grab it with your toes. Use your hips, outer quads and calve to try and rip the towel apart. You dont even have to squat more than half way and you will feel the difference.
So the lift and the cues....
Damn it is so hard to explain...
And last night, I did have a break through and was able to hit IPF depth with challenging weight (for me). I have to start at the top of the squat with breaking at the hips first...load up my hamstrings...then lower...feeling that tension the whole time. As I lower, I push out the knees, and keep riding it down...then...one last push out with the knees to hit depth and drive up with everything thought being HIPS HIPS HIPS. (I want to be in my quads). Being so tall (with tall hips and long femur), my butt is in another zip code. That takes some getting used to.
In a way, my knee pain helps a bit as it gives me a tactile que that if it starts hurting, I know im too far forward. If im in my hips, it doesn't hurt.
I know better squatters break at the knees and hips and the same time, but that's not working for me right now as I want to be in my quads...I need the tactile cue of my hamstrings tightening.
10:39a, 9/1/23
In reply to Hoosegow
Why? Everything I've read says that the shoes should help get depth?Hoosegow said:
Lol LAW... id ditch the heel too. Chucks or nuthin
10:40a, 9/1/23
In reply to True Anomaly
Thanks for the advice, and I've tried this. Its not a matter of ego lifting. Its doing what I'm supposed to do under a load thats challenging. Its got to be just heavy enough for me to HAVE to use proper form rather being so light, I can get away with relaxing at the bottom to hit depth, or quickly hop into my quads at the bottom.True Anomaly said:
I'm definitely no powerlifter, but I also think simply stripping the weight down until you truly can squat below paralell and start your journey back upwards in weight from there over time will give you better overall strength and mobility. I don't squat heavy at all, but controlling weight with squatting well below parallel has given me amazing mobility and still develops muscle
You may already be doing this anyway, so apologies if this seems simplistic
7:52p, 9/1/23
In reply to Tex117
For me, the elevated heel is good for a high bar squat or front squat, where you are more upright, your stance is generally narrower, and you're focused more on your quads. The elevated heel allows you to get deeper into your squat and not be as limited by your ankle mobility.
I think they're counterproductive for the goals of a low bar squat, which is to move as much weight as possible; the stance isn't meant to focus as much on the quads. Your stance is wider, so your ankle mobility shouldn't be as limiting. I think it would cause me to lean too far forward if my heels were elevated. I already have trouble with falling forward with totally flat shoes.
I think they're counterproductive for the goals of a low bar squat, which is to move as much weight as possible; the stance isn't meant to focus as much on the quads. Your stance is wider, so your ankle mobility shouldn't be as limiting. I think it would cause me to lean too far forward if my heels were elevated. I already have trouble with falling forward with totally flat shoes.
10:50a, 9/2/23
In reply to Tex117
My very non-expert critique of this is that most of those kinds of shoes have a VERY narrow toe box. IMO everything starts at the ground with your feet and a good shoe (or barefoot) is everything.
Tex117 said:
I wear the slightly lifted heeled weightlifting shoes.
My very non-expert critique of this is that most of those kinds of shoes have a VERY narrow toe box. IMO everything starts at the ground with your feet and a good shoe (or barefoot) is everything.