In reply to Dre_00

Dre_00 said:

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Pretty unambiguous that a player is onside if the player is even or in front of the final defender and goalie when the pass is played...and yet.

I get why they didn't stop the play but...if we're going to lessen the pressure on refs and make a virtually impossible job slightly more possible, we really need to come up with a way for refs to correct mistakes. And that includes VAR.

(Or just trash VAR because it's causing more problems than it's solving and at least do the other thing)

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I don't know if its because we watch more EPL or not. But, I think English are the absolute worst at VAR because they have created so many ridiculous rules to the process.

In reply to Dre_00 I don't think VAR is causing more problems than it's fixing. The overwhelming majority of VAR calls are correct, and the rate probably approaches 100% when it's actually an overturn. If the call on the field is wrong (like this case), yet upheld by VAR, the outcome is no worse off than it was before (other than that you had an expectation VAR would actually do its job). I'd rather see some bad calls actually get fixed than no bad calls get fixed.

The simple solution to offside cases like this is to literally not make a call on the field and defer completely to VAR. It's a black and white thing that VAR can easily and quickly spot. Let the dudes score and celebrate, complete your check and either uphold the goal or overturn. That needs to be their mindset.

That seems like the big difference between EPL and Bundesliga. Bundesliga refs and ARs will swallow their whistles in close calls and are happy to let VAR sort it out. EPL officials seem to have an ego that doesn't want to give VAR that power. The big problems in EPL recently have been because the ref goes and takes a look and disagrees with VAR or because the ref mishears what VAR is trying to tell him (perhaps because he's god and has his mind made up).

The problem isn't VAR. The problem is refs.

In reply to deadbq03

deadbq03 said:

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I don't think VAR is causing more problems than it's fixing. The overwhelming majority of VAR calls are correct, and the rate probably approaches 100% when it's actually an overturn. If the call on the field is wrong (like this case), yet upheld by VAR, the outcome is no worse off than it was before (other than that you had an expectation VAR would actually do its job). I'd rather see some bad calls actually get fixed than no bad calls get fixed.

The simple solution to offside cases like this is to literally not make a call on the field and defer completely to VAR. It's a black and white thing that VAR can easily and quickly spot. Let the dudes score and celebrate, complete your check and either uphold the goal or overturn. That needs to be their mindset.

That seems like the big difference between EPL and Bundesliga. Bundesliga refs and ARs will swallow their whistles in close calls and are happy to let VAR sort it out. EPL officials seem to have an ego that doesn't want to give VAR that power. The big problems in EPL recently have been because the ref goes and takes a look and disagrees with VAR or because the ref mishears what VAR is trying to tell him (perhaps because he's god and has his mind made up).

The problem isn't VAR. The problem is refs.

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I think that's a narrow definition of "problem". Of course the complete absence of VAR in the Liverpool/Spurs would have led to an incorrect decision just like the actual use of VAR did.

But if that mistake was made in the old days, people would have been mad at the AR, he probably would've even received death threats and people would have screamed for creating a VAR system. Now, people are mad at multiple refs, an entire system and the game was stopped for several minutes (remember what it was like to watch games without VAR stoppages?)...and I would argue that it is so much worse than the anger that came before VAR because of how VAR was sold and the expectations of VAR. Of course even back then, people would get irate and completely forget that a human makes mistakes. But at least some people realized that and that tempered the overall reaction. Now, more people expect more it's clear the expectations aren't being met. Oh and while not relevant here, the mere existence of VAR has completely changed the feeling of watching a goal because you sometimes aren't sure if VAR is going to take it away. All of that stuff, to me, is causing more problems than it is fixing. Certainly in the context of when it doesn't correct an obvious error. But I would argue that the success rate is not high enough and it is often misapplied making it not worth dealing with all the crap that has to come with VAR.

I do agree with the opinion that EPL does it the worst and it's absolutely used incorrectly. It's too often used for judgement calls. I would argue that at least half of those VAR apologies from a few pages ago should never have been made because they were judgement calls. Stop using VAR for judgment calls. More often than not, it just relitigates the decision with a 2nd ref who can get come to an opinion that is different than the 1st but that doesn't mean the 1st was incorrect. Until VAR can run like goal line technology and only solve a specific subset of errors, it's never going to be a net gain.

https://t.co/qOOYChzbsz pic.twitter.com/w2MQvdtVsj

— Big Jon Bass (@TheRealJonbass) October 6, 2023

In reply to Dre_00 I can respect that take, even if I can't share it.

I tend to see things differently since I've only really followed the sport since the coming of VAR. So for me, seeing bad calls go uncorrected in non-VAR games upsets me far more than stoppages do. And that's why I wish more things were reviewable, not less (top of my list is corner-FK decisions, which is another black-and-white call that ought to be easy to make quickly).

Damn looks like Everton might survive another year lol

In reply to jeffk

jeffk said:

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Not sure if y'all saw this from Norwich. Pretty well-done spot.

𝗔𝘁 𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀, 𝗶𝘁 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗯𝗲 𝗼𝗯𝘃𝗶𝗼𝘂𝘀 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗻 𝘀𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝘂𝗴𝗴𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗼𝗽𝗲, 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗶𝗴𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝗽𝗼𝘁.

Check in on those around you.#WorldMentalHealthDay | #YouAreNotAlone | @samaritans pic.twitter.com/ZC50AH5thl

— Norwich City FC (@NorwichCityFC) October 10, 2023

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Powerful video, thanks for sharing

Different league I know but another incredibly bad VAR call in France this weekend.

I tend to agree with the Liverpool take that it is an integrity/corruption issue as much as anything else.





It is so bad he clearly knows it and is expecting the call when he turns around but the ref misses it.



Edit to add- It is the second goal at about 30 seconds.

In reply to agsalaska

Quote:

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I tend to agree with the Liverpool take that it is an integrity/corruption issue as much as anything else.

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I can't think that situation was nothing more than lack of process.

In reply to Rudyjax

Rudyjax said:

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Quote:

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I tend to agree with the Liverpool take that it is an integrity/corruption issue as much as anything else.

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I can't think that situation was nothing more than lack of process.

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Man I don't know about that. Maybe in that specific incident at Spurs this weekend. But not all of them. It happens too often. Soccer is the most corrupt sport in the world.

It's not that hard man. I can sit on my couch and get it right.

Tottenham is just happy to be therepic.twitter.com/ftPOUywbhW

— Troll Football (@TrollFootball) October 11, 2023

In reply to agsalaska The simplest explanation is a combination of corruption, incompetence and structural inefficiency.

Jurgen Klopp tears…

Happy Saturday everyone! 🍻 pic.twitter.com/27omP80D1G

— Spurs Army (@SpursArmyTweets) October 21, 2023

In reply to DeangeloVickers Fake news

In reply to jeffk

jeffk said:

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Fake news

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Troof

Debate I just saw a clip of. 19-20 Liverpool or invincible Arsenal in one game. I'm pretty sure Liverpool wins that handily just because it's 20 years later. Same reason I think the 2023 As could probably beat the 27 Yankees

The gap in training, conditioning, nutrition, etc. is not nearly as large over 15 years as it is over almost 100 years. If you watch the players from the early oughts, they don't look out of place in today's game. It would be competitive IMO.

In reply to Dre_00 I was thinking you might be right, because highlights certainly show amazing shots and things from that era… but if these numbers from 2005 are accurate, then the fastest players today are basically 10% faster. That difference isn't gonna just be isolated to the top of the charts… if you've got a whole team of guys roughly 10% faster than another team, that's bound to make a big difference.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-514146/Who-fastest-footballer-Premier-League--Ronaldo-Lennon-AJ-Find-here.html

I think it's important to realize that the Invincibles are all in their mid-40s now.

Anyone see what Ajax is doing so far this season? 17th in the Eredivisie and supporters stopping games because they are throwing so much **** onto the pitch in frustration.

Not EPL, but didn't have a thread to drop it in.

Awww he just wanted to play too. 😂pic.twitter.com/yjdrklGBya

— Figen (@TheFigen_) October 23, 2023

In reply to Forum Troll

Forum Troll said:

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Anyone see what Ajax is doing so far this season? 17th in the Eredivisie and supporters stopping games because they are throwing so much **** onto the pitch in frustration.

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Yep. They're in full meltdown mode. Manager is gone, now, the first step to healing it

In reply to TXAggie2011

ajax I have the perfect man for the job https://t.co/GN18oWsqWz pic.twitter.com/b70aNER53F

— ًًً (@_captainpulisic) October 23, 2023

In reply to Rudyjax Wouldn't that be something!