This is what they should be using: https://datagolf.com/datagolf-rankings
12:46p, 2/21/24
In reply to RogerFurlong
But the OWGR has long maintained criteria for admission and LIV, for whatever reason, purposefully designed a tour that met virtually none of them. Take just about any organization, tell them you have no intention to comply with any of their membership requirements yet demand to be let in, and see how far it gets you.
I get the point and with some of the changes over the last year or so, the rankings are harder to defend.RogerFurlong said:
They've got to fix the world golf rankings. Crazy a league with Bryson, Brooks, Cam Smith, Rahm, and Reid are getting zero points, while someone will get points for playing in the mexico open this week.
But the OWGR has long maintained criteria for admission and LIV, for whatever reason, purposefully designed a tour that met virtually none of them. Take just about any organization, tell them you have no intention to comply with any of their membership requirements yet demand to be let in, and see how far it gets you.
1:10p, 2/21/24
In reply to JCA1
You don't think LIV was maybe led to believe they would qualify for OWGR in some form or fashion before having the rug swept from underneath them?
The OWGR is controlled by Jay Monaghan and his cronies…definitely no conflict of interest there
The OWGR is controlled by Jay Monaghan and his cronies…definitely no conflict of interest there
1:22p, 2/21/24
In reply to _lefraud_
No. And that makes no sense whatsoever. LIV didn't comply with the membership requirements at all. Why would the OWGR promise them points only to pull the rug in that scenario? If OWGR had it out for them, their move was simple-deny membership based on failure to comply with their well established and long maintained criteria. Reversing course would only give LIV ammo in court and provides no benefit to the OWGR at all.
LIV gave them all the ammo they needed on a silver platter. No collusion was even necessary. You'll have to ask LIV why they decided to make this so easy to do.
_lefraud_ said:
You don't think LIV was maybe led to believe they would qualify for OWGR in some form or fashion before having the rug swept from underneath them?
The OWGR is controlled by Jay Monaghan and his cronies…definitely no conflict of interest there
No. And that makes no sense whatsoever. LIV didn't comply with the membership requirements at all. Why would the OWGR promise them points only to pull the rug in that scenario? If OWGR had it out for them, their move was simple-deny membership based on failure to comply with their well established and long maintained criteria. Reversing course would only give LIV ammo in court and provides no benefit to the OWGR at all.
LIV gave them all the ammo they needed on a silver platter. No collusion was even necessary. You'll have to ask LIV why they decided to make this so easy to do.
1:34p, 2/21/24
In reply to _lefraud_
Come on. They blantently didn't follow the guidelines for ranking points. And liv lied to their players about that.
And yes the golf ranking does have some conflict of interests but the rules were set long before liv even started and they violated them. The rules didn't change when liv came about.
And yes the golf ranking does have some conflict of interests but the rules were set long before liv even started and they violated them. The rules didn't change when liv came about.
1:36p, 2/21/24
In reply to _lefraud_
No don't think they were led to believe that at all. Greg Norman told all of the players it would happen and that's why many jumped and are now forced to play Asian Tour events to qualify for majors.
1:38p, 2/21/24
The OWGR exist as a basis to qualify for the majors. Knowing that this was of the utmost importance to elite golfers, thumbing their nose at the OWGR and making it incredibly easy to exclude LIV is one of the more perplexing own-goals I've seen. Not sure what LIV was thinking.
1:42p, 2/21/24
Yep I'm just not buying guys like Phil, DJ and Brooks just took Greg's word for it. Surely, they had their team look into it, but maybe not since those guys are more or less exempt for most majors.
At the very least, I think the DP commissioner and others were more pro-LIV at the start, maybe knowing a merger of PIF and golf was coming down the pipeline but then got strong armed by Jay somehow.
At the very least, I think the DP commissioner and others were more pro-LIV at the start, maybe knowing a merger of PIF and golf was coming down the pipeline but then got strong armed by Jay somehow.
1:45p, 2/21/24
In reply to JCA1
I think LIV was thinking they would buy so many top golfers that the OWGR couldn't ignore the strength of their fields.
Only two of the top 50 OWGR in Mexico this week certainly proves how big a joke the OWGR is.
Only two of the top 50 OWGR in Mexico this week certainly proves how big a joke the OWGR is.
1:54p, 2/21/24
In reply to _lefraud_
and essentially it is getting to that point sooner, rather than later. Not to mention with Rory crying about Rahm and the Ryder Cup now I'd bet good money the OWGR formula will change soon._lefraud_ said:
I think LIV was thinking they would buy so many top golfers that the OWGR couldn't ignore the strength of their fields.
Only two of the top 50 OWGR in Mexico this week certainly proves how big a joke the OWGR is.
2:35p, 2/21/24
In reply to _lefraud_
While a bunch of guys at LIV are no doubt world class players, that's not enough to warrant points, IMO. You need to explain why LIV, as constructed, deserves points, regardless of who they have. Because those guys will at some point no longer be great and LIV would still be getting points. Unless you can make a case for LIV without simply saying "they have guys who I currently think are great players," this is precisely why they don't get points.
In short, you need to justify how their tour is set up and that it warrants points, not that they currently have a handful of people who deserve points.
The point of the OWGR is to, at least in theory, rank golfers across multiple platforms. And not just today but tomorrow, next year, next decade. Because LIV doesn't have a merit-based system for gaining entry (or losing your card, so to speak), that's a huge problem that separates it from every other tour._lefraud_ said:
I think LIV was thinking they would buy so many top golfers that the OWGR couldn't ignore the strength of their fields.
Only two of the top 50 OWGR in Mexico this week certainly proves how big a joke the OWGR is.
While a bunch of guys at LIV are no doubt world class players, that's not enough to warrant points, IMO. You need to explain why LIV, as constructed, deserves points, regardless of who they have. Because those guys will at some point no longer be great and LIV would still be getting points. Unless you can make a case for LIV without simply saying "they have guys who I currently think are great players," this is precisely why they don't get points.
In short, you need to justify how their tour is set up and that it warrants points, not that they currently have a handful of people who deserve points.
4:15p, 2/21/24
In reply to JCA1
Or be the OWGR and say your job is to rank the best golfers in the world, but not give the best golfers in the world points when they play against each other. I don't see the majors letting it fly forever.JCA1 said:I get the point and with some of the changes over the last year or so, the rankings are harder to defend.RogerFurlong said:
They've got to fix the world golf rankings. Crazy a league with Bryson, Brooks, Cam Smith, Rahm, and Reid are getting zero points, while someone will get points for playing in the mexico open this week.
But the OWGR has long maintained criteria for admission and LIV, for whatever reason, purposefully designed a tour that met virtually none of them. Take just about any organization, tell them you have no intention to comply with any of their membership requirements yet demand to be let in, and see how far it gets you.
4:42p, 2/21/24
In reply to RogerFurlong
ANC, PGAA, USGA and R&A are all members of the OWGR board of governors. If the majors cared about LIV getting points they would already have them.
5:13p, 2/21/24
In reply to guadalupeag
Yes but at some point the majors will have too many mules and a bunch of good golfers left off because the pga tour got their feelings hurt.
guadalupeag said:
ANC, PGAA, USGA and R&A are all members of the OWGR board of governors. If the majors cared about LIV getting points they would already have them.
Yes but at some point the majors will have too many mules and a bunch of good golfers left off because the pga tour got their feelings hurt.
3:08p, 2/22/24
In reply to class of 03
Oh wow they actually came out with trading cards. I thought you were joking lol
class of 03 said:
Bunk, get your Cleeks trading cards on order.
Oh wow they actually came out with trading cards. I thought you were joking lol
7:02p, 2/22/24
What the masters, us open and british should do is just invite the top 10 to 15 liv players and let liv figure it out. That will solve some of the issue.
8:02a, 2/24/24
Report that Anthony Kim has signed with LIV and will play next week.
Not a LIV fan but this is a smart signing for them. Should generate a fair amount of interest for golf's biggest mystery.
Not a LIV fan but this is a smart signing for them. Should generate a fair amount of interest for golf's biggest mystery.
8:09a, 2/24/24
In reply to JCA1
Interesting. Too bad the next event is overseas and tape delayed. Wonder what shape his game is in?
8:19a, 2/24/24
In reply to 98Ag99Grad
That's a good question. Who knows?
And while interesting, this is also why they don't get OWGR points. You can't give a guy who hasn't swung a club in 12 years one of 50 spots just because it'll generate interest and then claim you're a merit-based tour worthy of points.
98Ag99Grad said:
Interesting. Too bad the next event is overseas and tape delayed. Wonder what shape his game is in?
That's a good question. Who knows?
And while interesting, this is also why they don't get OWGR points. You can't give a guy who hasn't swung a club in 12 years one of 50 spots just because it'll generate interest and then claim you're a merit-based tour worthy of points.
8:38a, 2/24/24
In reply to JCA1
Yeah gotta think he's nothing but a side show attraction. I'm sure he's been playing rounds with buddies but nothing competitive in over a decade isn't a recipe for success. But...I'll tune in because I'm curious and that's all LIV wants for now.
11:07a, 2/24/24
Side show or not, I can't wait to see AK return. He was exciting to watch and for me, I'd actually watch it. AK beating Sergio in Ryder Cup and not knowing he won the match was one of the moments I can never forget. Almost as good as Patrick Reed punking Rory.
5:29p, 2/26/24
the fact that Anthony Kim can show up covered in cob webs and dust and be let right inside the ropes at a LIV event sums up the problem with LIV quite nicely
5:30p, 2/26/24
In reply to JP_Losman
It'll probably upset you that the PGAT was trying to get him too.
I also saw their winner yesterday and his crew spraying champagne and chugging beers after the big win. Oh the horror!
JP_Losman said:
the fact that Anthony Kim can show up covered in cob webs and dust and be let right inside the ropes at a LIV event sums up the problem with LIV quite nicely
It'll probably upset you that the PGAT was trying to get him too.
I also saw their winner yesterday and his crew spraying champagne and chugging beers after the big win. Oh the horror!
8:13a, 3/1/24
In reply to JP_Losman
I am sure the PGAT would have plenty of sponsor exemptions available for AK also. Can't blame him for taking the guaranteed $.
8:33a, 3/1/24
No matter where he landed upon his decision to return it's going to take a while to get back into tournament playing form. What will be interesting to see is if he sticks it out and is fully committed or not. I would assume the guaranteed money helps that decision for him.
9:27a, 3/1/24
Maybe I don't know all the details, but AK's story has never made any sense to me. As I understand it, he quit playing professional golf because he sustained an injury and had an insurance policy that paid him $10 mill. for a permanent injury. So, he supposedly gave up golf and claimed permanent injury to cash in the policy. But literally no one believed he was permanently injured and everyone knew he did it for the insurance. In short, he got over his injury and no one believed he couldn't play but he pretended he was still injured to keep the money. Now, I don't know the specifics about his insurance policy, but it seems really weird to me that an insurance company would pay out $10 mill under those circumstances.
Anybody know more about this that can fill me in?
Anybody know more about this that can fill me in?
9:37a, 3/1/24
I was really hoping he would come out and play his old clubs and bag. Just look like he picked up the same bag and everything from has last start. Would be great to see Nike everything again.
10:17a, 3/1/24
In reply to JCA1
He had an insurance policy against career-ending injury. He filed a claim and was awarded his benefit per the policy. The policy stipulated that he couldn't return to professional golf unless he re-paid his benefit or maybe an agreed upon amount ($10MM). He got better but coudln't or didn't want to re-pay the $10MM (no guarantee he'd be able to make that on Tour after a prolonged absence). LIV comes along and offers to front the $10MM repayment if he agrees to join their exhibitions. He's with LIV now.JCA1 said:
Maybe I don't know all the details, but AK's story has never made any sense to me. As I understand it, he quit playing professional golf because he sustained an injury and had an insurance policy that paid him $10 mill. for a permanent injury. So, he supposedly gave up golf and claimed permanent injury to cash in the policy. But literally no one believed he was permanently injured and everyone knew he did it for the insurance. In short, he got over his injury and no one believed he couldn't play but he pretended he was still injured to keep the money. Now, I don't know the specifics about his insurance policy, but it seems really weird to me that an insurance company would pay out $10 mill under those circumstances.
Anybody know more about this that can fill me in?
10:22a, 3/1/24
In reply to Marauder Blue 6
I think it wasn't only the physical injuries but the mental exhaustion and he wanted to spend time living his life not being dominated by golf...which it was ever since he was very young with an overbearing father.