Perspective on Vaccines - Page 2

eric76

2:07p, 9/14/21

aggierogue said:
Zobel said:
I'll be honest, I'm not interesting in spending time listening to something titled "Eric Weinstein Thinks COVID-19 Vaccines Are Riskier Than Claimed." It's a clickbait title, and it's an undefeatable argument - what claim, and when, and by whom?

There's a mountain of published research available about these vaccines. When those are available, why should I care what Eric Weinstein thinks?
I know. You only like to listen to people who share your narrative. Not everyone shares your POV. I like to hear both sides.

spoiler alert, he points out why people don't trust Fauci, the MSM, or the government, and there are good reasons why.

The point of this thread was to give people like you some perspective on the other side and why people are hesitant to get this vaccine. But instead of listening to a different perspective, you want to police every thread that isn't pro-vax and say, "WHY AREN'T PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED?"

I don't know about Zobel, but I don't pay attention to Conspiracy Theorists. We should always be able to find something better to do.

Zobel

2:07p, 9/14/21

In reply to aggierogue

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.

There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.

aggierogue

2:08p, 9/14/21

In reply to Drip99

Ya think?

Now you know why I didn't walk away with the overwhelming feeling of, "Talked to my doc. Gonna go get that vaccine now."

I honestly felt like I wasted my time discussing it with him.

aggierogue

2:18p, 9/14/21

In reply to Zobel

Zobel said:

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.
There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.

That's assuming there are no long term risks to the vaccines. You can't prove that there aren't just as he can't prove that there are.

For example, there have been studies that have shown evidence that some vaccines (not referring to COVID) can induce autoimmunity in some people.

As for "burden to society," much of the dialogue pushed by the Biden administration suggests that the unvaccinated need to be vaccinated for the safety of the vaccinated. If I don't want to get vaccinated but am being pressured into it for the safety of others, it could certainly be argued that it is a burden.

tomtomdrumdrum

2:18p, 9/14/21

In reply to aggierogue

Maybe your takeaway should have been "I need a new doctor." You probably shouldn't put any stock in the vaccine hesitancy of a doctor that doesn't know which vaccine is which.

aggierogue

2:20p, 9/14/21

In reply to tomtomdrumdrum

tomtomdrumdrum said:
Maybe your takeaway should have been "I need a new doctor."

I'm considering it.

Zobel

2:30p, 9/14/21

In reply to aggierogue

You might consider the problem from a Bayesian perspective. There's prior probability which we come into on this. You can't come into a situation completely unknown - there's no way to function like that. The prior probability of a vaccine having long term risks is very low. So the question shouldn't be "can you prove that they don't?" because clearly that's a dead end. The question should be - "why should we consider something significantly different than our prior probability suggests is likely?" Then you can function, then you can bring evidence. After you have your evidence, you reevaluate the possibility and now it's your posterior probability (or your new prior for the next iteration). If someone started arguing that you can't prove the sun is going to rise tomorrow or any day in the future, they're right because you can't. But prior probability says they're almost certainly wrong, and the discussion is a waste of time without some kind of compelling evidence.

I haven't seen a case to upgrade our priors and truthfully it seems like the data goes the other way - these vaccines are incredibly safe. The only reason these kind of arguments are persuasive is because they play on peoples pre-existing fears, both of vaccines, of governments, and of the virus itself.

As for the burden. The fact that something benefits society doesn't make it a burden to you. Lower taxes in general benefit society. They also benefit individuals. A person who cheerfully overpays the IRS every year isn't enduring a societal burden because they're denying their own benefit while also hurting the GDP. If the IRS returns their money to them against their will (lol it's a hypothetical) the IRS isn't imposing on them.

Every piece of information we have suggests that both on the aggregate and individual level the vaccines don't hurt you, and they do benefit you. The only "burden" being proposed here is one of choice, and that's completely unrelated to the question of whether or not it is reasonable to be concerned or afraid of these vaccines. You can say people should have a choice, and also that it is unreasonable to be concerned or afraid. Telling people to be afraid of vaccines is irresponsible.

KidDoc

3:07p, 9/14/21

In reply to Zobel

Zobel said:

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.
There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.

The only category that should be hesitant to get the vaccine is people with a history of Guillain- Barret syndrome especially if associated with a prior vaccine. And I'm still a bit leery about teens with no risk factors as the myocarditis case rate is much higher than the typical baseline rate per CDC data.

I believe that the right answer in healthy teens is either lower dose or a single shot but the data is still being gathered.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.

eric76

3:30p, 9/14/21

In reply to Zobel

Zobel said:

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.
There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.

Also, if someone wants to eliminate risk in their lives, that wouldn't even be possible if they spent their lives in their mother's basement. We can't eliminate risk, but we can rationally evaluate risk, as you did here.

aggierogue

3:55p, 9/14/21

In reply to eric76

eric76 said:
Zobel said:

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.
There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.
Also, if someone wants to eliminate risk in their lives, that wouldn't even be possible if they spent their lives in their mother's basement. We can't eliminate risk, but we can rationally evaluate risk, as you did here.

Sure. And plenty of unvaccinated people have evaluated the risk and determined it's not in their best interest to get vaccinated just as they have flu shots for years.

Zobel

3:57p, 9/14/21

In reply to KidDoc

Right, yes. I should have clarified that there are some people who have medical reasons to be unable to take the vaccines. Those are the people who absolutely benefit from others around them taking them.

bay fan

5:31p, 9/14/21

In reply to aggierogue

aggierogue said:
Duncan Idaho said:
JesusQuintana said:
aggierogue said:
Zobel said:
I'll be honest, I'm not interesting in spending time listening to something titled "Eric Weinstein Thinks COVID-19 Vaccines Are Riskier Than Claimed." It's a clickbait title, and it's an undefeatable argument - what claim, and when, and by whom?

There's a mountain of published research available about these vaccines. When those are available, why should I care what Eric Weinstein thinks?
I know. You only like to listen to people who share your narrative. Not everyone shares your POV. I like to hear both sides.

spoiler alert, he points out why people don't trust Fauci, the MSM, or the government, and there are good reasons why.

The point of this thread was to give people like you some perspective on the other side and why people are hesitant to get this vaccine. But instead of listening to a different perspective, you want to police every thread that isn't pro-vax and say, "WHY AREN'T PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED?"
Why do people look to the MSM, random podcasts or the government for personal healthcare advice? What happened to visiting your doctor?

They tend to fall in two groups
1) they believe they know better.
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3208546

2)are youngish adults who havent a regular health care provider since they aged out of pediatrics.
You act as if every family with children has a pediatrician or everyone over the age of 30 has insurance or a regular doctor.

Those without doctors are the ones who need the vaccine the most……who do you think pays for them to get care in the ER or worse?

bay fan

5:36p, 9/14/21

In reply to aggierogue

aggierogue said:
Ya think?

Now you know why I didn't walk away with the overwhelming feeling of, "Talked to my doc. Gonna go get that vaccine now."

I honestly felt like I wasted my time discussing it with him.

Why don't you find a new doctor?

petebaker

2:41a, 9/15/21

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Knucklesammich

8:16a, 9/15/21

In reply to KidDoc

KidDoc said:
Zobel said:

Quote:
Do you think there is zero personal risk in getting vaccinated? I've seen plenty of data that would suggest that getting vaccinated could be at least a small risk.
There's personal risk, but the risk is small, while the upside is high. I don't think there is any category that has an increased overall risk profile from taking the vaccine. No one is asking people to endure a burden for society.

Compare to being conscripted during wartime. Your risk of being killed dramatically goes up. When you take a vaccine, your risk of death goes down.
The only category that should be hesitant to get the vaccine is people with a history of Guillain- Barret syndrome especially if associated with a prior vaccine. And I'm still a bit leery about teens with no risk factors as the myocarditis case rate is much higher than the typical baseline rate per CDC data.

I believe that the right answer in healthy teens is either lower dose or a single shot but the data is still being gathered.

As a parent I really appreciate the feedback on Myocarditis and other risk factors. It helped cut through the static around the issue.

It really helped us balance all the various factors and we presented those to our daughter as we discussed it.

In the end we elected to have our daughter vaccinated, but it was really her first life choice.

Again the insight from you as a pediatrician and also of course talking to our own pediatrician was super helpful.

Stat Monitor Repairman

6:03p, 1/5/23

Bret Weinstein back on Rogan this week in JRE #1919

You may recall that he was one of the first people to come out with the lab leak theory in April 2020 which caused a huge amount of blowback.

In the latest episode he offers his opinion on the latest with covid, the vaccine, and the covid response, generally. His conclusion was that the covid response was the biggest failure of all time and we are in real trouble with all this.

Issues discussed hit hard. If you are still on the fence about all this it might be worth a listen.

JRE #1919

Dad

1:01a, 1/7/23

At this point anyone thinking about vaccinating or boosting their child needs to put the gun down because your are playing Russian roulette with your kid.

I'm listening to the latest Rogan right now.

I got the vaccine two years ago this month and so far have no known side effects outside of getting very sick for a day and a half after the second shot, but I wish I had been a little less trusting and a little less scared of Covid and passed on it initially.

Drip99

9:28p, 1/8/23

In reply to Dad

West Point Aggie

8:53a, 1/19/23

In reply to Dad

Dad said:
At this point anyone thinking about vaccinating or boosting their child needs to put the gun down because your are playing Russian roulette with your kid.

I'm listening to the latest Rogan right now.

I got the vaccine two years ago this month and so far have no known side effects outside of getting very sick for a day and a half after the second shot, but I wish I had been a little less trusting and a little less scared of Covid and passed on it initially.

It is interesting to hear this perspective NOW…I wish the idiots in charge had not been so willing to destroy so many livelihoods under the banner of "safety"