Changes with the Corps - Page 3

dreyOO

12:49p, 3/13/24

Definitely Not A Cop said:
fc2112 said:
I love how so many hear think they know better than the United States Military Academy, et al, on how to run a Corps of Cadets.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they Corps at the service academies are superior to ours in preparing officers to serve our country.

Why are libtards always so damn ugly? This guy needs to cover up his mug

DCPD158

1:02p, 3/13/24

Why do a Fish Camp? Waste of time if you are looking for training continuity. Better to gather all the unit training staff (Pissheads, Butt's and Zips) and do a week long session prior to FOW to instill the basics of the training requirements for the upcoming year.

Keeps unique individual unit "traditions" and role, but gives the unit training cadre specific guidelines.

Company I-1, Ord-Ords '85 -12thFan and Websider-

EagleCamden

1:09p, 3/13/24

In reply to AggieBaseball06

AggieBaseball06 said:
I noticed one of the "Decision Makers" listed on that petition is President of TAMU Michael Young... who hasn't been our president for 3.5 years...

weird on mine it says Gen Welsh

stetson

1:53p, 3/13/24

In reply to aggie93

aggie93 said:
kb2001 said:
Probably an unpopular take on this...

It's not the worst idea ever. They did this in the 50s also, putting the fish out at Riverside campus in the old barracks, and only some upperclassmen were allowed out there.

His point is that every outfit does things their own way, and it's no longer one corps. The focus is on the outfit specific "traditions" and less about the unified corps way of doing things. His goal is to flush out the old culture of "we've always done it this way", and this is one idea to do it. Realistically, the way it's "always been done" is likely something new in the last 10 years.

This isn't new, the corps pushed the fish out to Riverside campus to flush out the culture of hazing that was getting out of hand. They shut down Fish Drill Team for several years to flush out the culture and get it back to precise D&C. Outfits get disbanded to get rid of a bad culture more often than you realize. This is a reset to get all outfits operating on the same page and in the same way, and to flush out that "sacred outfit tradition" that started 10 years ago.

I don't necessarily agree with this extreme of a change, but I understand why he wants to do it, and he's not wrong about the way things in the corps have forked and split over the years.
The Corps pushed the fish out to Riverside because you had thousands of cadets returning from WWII and they had no space, they also knew mixing men in their mid 20s returning from war with 18 year olds was a bad idea. It's not like anyone looks back at that time as a good one. Except for this Commandant perhaps. I knew men from that era and they certainly didn't look at it as a great thing.

What you are suggesting is a generic Corps like the Academies. It simply won't work well here with half the cadets not taking contracts. We know it won't work especially because they don't want to emulate the successful outfits.

This is my understanding of Riverside as well. Among the old Ags I have met, not one that was there during that time thought it was a good idea.

Regarding Corps unity, I do not agree with him and, and as a former cadet and current military officer, he should no better. It sounds like he is carrying out orders or perhaps making a change for the sake of making a change, which is not uncommon for incoming commanders. Esprit de corps exists in within units of all branches of the military, however they still function as one branch and as one military. Esprit de corps develops pride within a unit and healthy competition between units. Hazing was terrible when I was there (early to mid-80s), although I will say that nothing brings people together like shared adversity. There were 32 fish assigned to my outfit my freshman year (I don't know why to this day), which made the hazing even worse as sophomores were placed in other dorms and our Pissheads were on a mission to reduce our ranks and move back into our dorm, which they successfully did. The next year, my outfit was assigned 8 fish and some of those had specifically requested the outfit. I think we had 10 fish class my junior year. Fearing for the future of our outfit due to the rate of attrition, and although we were not supposed to do so, we made the decision my junior year to visit high schools and and recruit not only for the Corps but our outfit as well and I always encouraged the band (you're welcome, BQs) as well as females. In our minds recruiting for our outfit was recruiting for the Corps. The work paid off as our fish class my Zip year was a about 20 IIRC.

If a toxic culture exists in an outfit, that is on the CO and should be corrected with a change of command. There were such outfits that were disbanded during my time there, however I do not recall a change in command taking place prior.

Pumpkinhead

2:21p, 3/13/24

A&M Corps is much more than ROTC. I got a lot out of it as a D&C - the bad and good experiences - that I have no doubt taught me some lessons for life that I'd have never gotten as a non-reg.

TX_COWDOC

12:07p, 3/16/24

In reply to stetson

Great post. I agree with your comments on the role of outfit / unit pride and their contribution to a healthy Esprit de Corps. By the way, if you mentioned it, I missed it.....what outfit were you in?

www.southpawprecision.com
Type 07 FFL / Class 2 SOT
Nightforce Optics Dealer
AGM Night Vision Dealer

Prexys Moon

3:29p, 3/18/24

any update on all this?

CanyonAg77

3:40p, 3/18/24

Small derail, regarding D&C vs. Contract.

Contracting was at a low ebb after Vietnam, I'd say only 30-40% took a contract. Of those that did, maybe 10% of that 30-40% stayed in an entire 20 years. Even the ones who stayed in for 20, are now finishing up civilian careers of 25-30 years.

The A&M Corps, with it's dual Military/Civilian education, is unmatched for preparing officers for the real world.

EagleCamden

5:23p, 3/18/24

In reply to Prexys Moon

Prexys Moon said:
any update on all this?

Nope no updates from the Commandant. Sign the petition and share it with your buddies

A Net Full of Jello

5:26p, 3/18/24

In reply to dreyOO

dreyOO said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
fc2112 said:
I love how so many hear think they know better than the United States Military Academy, et al, on how to run a Corps of Cadets.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they Corps at the service academies are superior to ours in preparing officers to serve our country.

Why are libtards always so damn ugly? This guy needs to cover up his mug

They are angry and bitter that they are unattractive and feel they need to change society and society's definition of manly, feminine, attractive, etc. It's my theory that the ugly makes them liberal, not the liberal that makes them ugly.

Though being liberal will make you less attractive in my eyes.

stetson

6:37p, 3/18/24

In reply to TX_COWDOC

TX_COWDOC said:
Great post. I agree with your comments on the role of outfit / unit pride and their contribution to a healthy Esprit de Corps. By the way, if you mentioned it, I missed it.....what outfit were you in?

Gator 2

FJB

stetson

11:43a, 3/25/24

Apparently, the commandant will be holding virtual round table discussions with former cadets on 03/27 and 04/10. Link to sign up

FJB

tamc93

12:32p, 3/25/24

In reply to stetson

stetson said:
Apparently, the commandant will be holding virtual round table discussions with former cadets on 03/27 and 04/10. Link to sign up

Saw that today. Hopefully not dog and pony and will listen (but unlikely).

FJB, FPA, and FAZ

Definitely Not A Cop

12:36p, 3/25/24

In reply to tamc93

It definitely will be.

Won't have time to make this, but I would love to hear his response on how eliminating the culture from the outfits that recruit themselves so well they have to turn people away will lead to him recruiting more cadets overall.

n1mr0d

1:51p, 3/25/24

copied from the email invite:

"… The Quad and Texas A&M are home to something special, there's no denying that. Evolution can occur while keeping our time honored traditions and practices at the heart of all that we do. What we are working toward today is ensuring that the Corps experience remains rooted in what makes it special, while also making progress in ways that secure relevancy for generations to come."

Gibberish and double talk. Who was it that determined that it's this commandant's charge to force evolution upon the cadet corps?

can't wait for the summary from the Rudder Association meeting to come out.

someone needs to look into the hiring process for this one. Smells of DEI agenda.

if this guy is still commandant this August, there won't be much left to celebrate when the 150th anniversary in 2026.

Time to return to having an O6 advise the Corps.

Tailgate88

2:42p, 3/25/24

From that link, there are also Parents and Families Roundtables on 4/9 and 4/15!

TX_COWDOC

8:23p, 3/25/24

In reply to stetson

Thanks for sharing the link.

www.southpawprecision.com
Type 07 FFL / Class 2 SOT
Nightforce Optics Dealer
AGM Night Vision Dealer

cavscout96

9:46p, 3/27/24

In reply to n1mr0d

n1mr0d said:
copied from the email invite:

"… The Quad and Texas A&M are home to something special, there's no denying that. Evolution can occur while keeping our time honored traditions and practices at the heart of all that we do. What we are working toward today is ensuring that the Corps experience remains rooted in what makes it special, while also making progress in ways that secure relevancy for generations to come."

Gibberish and double talk. Who was it that determined that it's this commandant's charge to force evolution upon the cadet corps?

can't wait for the summary from the Rudder Association meeting to come out.

someone needs to look into the hiring process for this one. Smells of DEI agenda.

if this guy is still commandant this August, there won't be much left to celebrate when the 150th anniversary in 2026.

Time to return to having an O6 advise the Corps.

Username checks out

Ryan the Temp

10:31p, 3/27/24

In reply to fc2112

fc2112 said:
I love how so many hear think they know better than the United States Military Academy, et al, on how to run a Corps of Cadets.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they Corps at the service academies are superior to ours in preparing officers to serve our country.

I have been a cadet at both USAFA and A&M. There were many differences and many similarities. There were things USAFA did better, imo, and things A&M did better. Cultural identity overall is a much, MUCH more important aspect of the cadet experience at A&M. That is due in large part to cadets being shuffled to new outfits every two years at the academies and cadet leadership changing every semester.

Some of the changes I've seen the commandant propose are more in line with what the service academies do, and I think there is real value to much of it, but that doesn't mean he should go balls to the wall with a radical reshaping of the Corps.

However, one of the major differences between A&M and the academies is the way Aggies tend to cling to cultural history and staunchly resist anything resembling change. It's really kind of strange to me how so many former cadets take a "no change, ever" approach to the Corps. The Corps has experienced good change and bad change, and I would hope both Corps leadership and former cadets are willing to accept the positive value of some changes, while still accepting it is sometimes necessary to roll back those changes that are less successful. Ironically, organizational change and development is one of the major lessons that was taught in my Mil Sci class when I was a zip.

Personally, I think if the commandant can make a compelling case for a change, I'm willing to give him a shot with it. If it works and makes the Corps better, great. If it doesn't, then learn from the mistake and go back to status quo.

The comment above about "how it's always been" being the last 10 years is true, but I'd probably revise that being closer to 4 or 5. All it takes for something to become "how it's always been" is for the first class that experienced it to graduate and leave no one left on the Quad who remembers it being any other way.

ETA: I was a cadet at USAFA when Gen. Welsh was commandant.

EagleCamden

10:36a, 3/28/24

In reply to Ryan the Temp

Ryan the Temp said:
fc2112 said:
I love how so many hear think they know better than the United States Military Academy, et al, on how to run a Corps of Cadets.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they Corps at the service academies are superior to ours in preparing officers to serve our country.
I have been a cadet at both USAFA and A&M. There were many differences and many similarities. There were things USAFA did better, imo, and things A&M did better. Cultural identity overall is a much, MUCH more important aspect of the cadet experience at A&M. That is due in large part to cadets being shuffled to new outfits every two years at the academies and cadet leadership changing every semester.

Some of the changes I've seen the commandant propose are more in line with what the service academies do, and I think there is real value to much of it, but that doesn't mean he should go balls to the wall with a radical reshaping of the Corps.

However, one of the major differences between A&M and the academies is the way Aggies tend to cling to cultural history and staunchly resist anything resembling change. It's really kind of strange to me how so many former cadets take a "no change, ever" approach to the Corps. The Corps has experienced good change and bad change, and I would hope both Corps leadership and former cadets are willing to accept the positive value of some changes, while still accepting it is sometimes necessary to roll back those changes that are less successful. Ironically, organizational change and development is one of the major lessons that was taught in my Mil Sci class when I was a zip.

Personally, I think if the commandant can make a compelling case for a change, I'm willing to give him a shot with it. If it works and makes the Corps better, great. If it doesn't, then learn from the mistake and go back to status quo.

The comment above about "how it's always been" being the last 10 years is true, but I'd probably revise that being closer to 4 or 5. All it takes for something to become "how it's always been" is for the first class that experienced it to graduate and leave no one left on the Quad who remembers it being any other way.

ETA: I was a cadet at USAFA when Gen. Welsh was commandant.

good input

n1mr0d

8:08a, 4/23/24

Kiss your black belts good bye. Corps now going to brown belts and low quarters in another blow to tradition by current regime.

A parent that attended a recent virtual meeting told me to expect michalis' FOW plan to be released this week. He's hell bent on dismantling the Aggie Corps for a generic, woke ROTC organization.

cevans_40

8:15a, 4/23/24

Just another example of get weaker or get kicked to the curb. There is no room for an alpha personality in todays America. It just hurts too many feelings.

Secolobo

8:17a, 4/23/24

I was in the corps and who would have thought that the frats would be more conservative...

Definitely Not A Cop

8:20a, 4/23/24

What's the point of brown belts/shoes? Cheaper?

DevilD77

8:32a, 4/23/24

In reply to Definitely Not A Cop

Definitely Not A Cop said:
What's the point of brown belts/shoes? Cheaper?

Probably because the Army has switched back to brown belts and shoes with the "new" pinks and green uniform.

BQRyno

9:22a, 4/23/24

Getting rid of black belts is so much more symbolic than I think he's probably intending for it to be.

fc2112

9:29a, 4/23/24

In reply to Ryan the Temp

Excellent response.

tamc93

10:00a, 4/23/24

I am tempted to bid on the CCA dinner with him.

Dinner with the Commandant: Winner will receive a private dinner for two with the Commandant ....

Get Off My Lawn

11:28a, 4/23/24

In reply to BQRyno

BQRyno said:
Getting rid of black belts is so much more symbolic than I think he's probably intending for it to be.

Uniforms change. I try to reserve indignation for things that truly rate it. There's something interesting about being a fish and being lumped in with the pissheads: "black belts - heads down!" but I'm far more concerned with prospective changes to the training dynamics.

BQRyno

11:29a, 4/23/24

In reply to Get Off My Lawn

That's why I said it's symbolic…

MajorPayne

11:40a, 4/23/24

What is the source regarding brown belts? Am I missing an announcement from the Commandant or report from a current cadet that his intent is to do away with black belts?

n1mr0d

10:35p, 4/23/24

In reply to MajorPayne

Source is the recent issuance of a couple thousand pair of brown shoes. No you didn't miss the memo. michalis doesn't send memos (to parents at least). He acts in secrecy. Go to Final Review this weekend and see for yourself.

Jim Hogg is angry

10:40p, 4/23/24

Trident P still alive?

Tex100

8:59a, 4/24/24

In reply to tamc93

tamc93 said:
I am tempted to bid on the CCA dinner with him.

Dinner with the Commandant: Winner will receive a private dinner for two with the Commandant ....

. Or you can play golf with him. All about this guy's ego.

He's no Tom Parsons.

BQRyno

9:06a, 4/24/24

In reply to n1mr0d

n1mr0d said:
Source is the recent issuance of a couple thousand pair of brown shoes. No you didn't miss the memo. michalis doesn't send memos (to parents at least). He acts in secrecy. Go to Final Review this weekend and see for yourself.

If this is true (big if, but will come to light one way or another in short order), he's really going to have a hard time cultivating (can't say maintaining because I don't think he's been transparent until he's caught with his hand in the cookie jar) an image of transparency. I imagine he'd say it's just the color of belts and shoes, there's a good reason, etc etc, but in the broader context, this would not be a good look.

For those saying change could be good and if this or that doesn't work, we can just go back, I have a question. When does that ever happen? Once the train leaves the station, there's typically no going back. That's why "progress" for the sake of progress is dangerous. In reality, we never go back.