In reply to SA68AG

SA68AG said:

---

Biden is fixing to lose a few more points due to his lack of leadership regarding the campus protests.

---

with humans in polling; not with harvested mass-mailed out ballots

In reply to SA68AG

SA68AG said:

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55% say the Trump presidency was a success. 39% say the Biden presidency is a success from the CNN poll.

That may be the most encouraging poll result I've seen.

I infer from that the only people who think Trump's presidency was unsuccessful and Biden's successful are hardcore dems. For those numbers to be accurate almost all independents have to land on Trump's side.

This type of opinion isn't going to change before the election.

If Trump and his campaign repeatedly reinforce this, they should win. Keep pounding "You and the world were better off with Trump than with Biden" theme.

---

I tend to agree.

I think Trump is in a MUCH better position than a lot of people are giving him credit for. I also think Alvin Bragg's trial will continue to help him.

It is the continued party shakeup we are seeing all over the country.

Update: Trump up 10 per Rasmussen.

Election 2024: Trump Now +10 Over Biden

Despite being on trial in New York City, former President Donald Trump has widened his lead over President Joe Biden during the past month.

More At Rasmussen Reports:https://t.co/5Z3HcypssA pic.twitter.com/h4W5A6t2FL

— Rasmussen Reports (@Rasmussen_Poll) May 3, 2024

In reply to nortex97 If true and the trend continues Biden is toast.

I look forward to the massive meltdown.

It would take a 10 point margin or higher to have a chance of overcoming the "anomalies" that we all know are coming on election night.

The numbers don't lie.

America wants mass deportation.

Big numbers in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. pic.twitter.com/CAPpnn5vYW

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) May 4, 2024

In reply to aggiehawg WTF is wrong with Oregon? Wow, portlandia indeed. Note Trump is up 12 if you include the Kennedy-commie ticket.

In reply to aggiehawg

aggiehawg said:

---

The numbers don't lie.

America wants mass deportation.

Big numbers in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. pic.twitter.com/CAPpnn5vYW

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) May 4, 2024

---

Looks like Abbot needs to send more buses to Chicago and Michigan.

Quote:

---

The numbers are in -- Americans do not want illegal immigrants in the country any longer.
An online survey conducted by Axios asked 6,251 adults in between March 29 and April 14 whether they support "mass deportations of undocumented immigrants."
And the numbers don't lie. A majority of 51 percent of Americans supported the idea.

---

Quote:

---

While perhaps 51 percent -- a slight majority -- may not seem like a lot, it does when looking at the general picture.
This wasn't a survey asking about border security or funding or separating families. It was a survey asking whether respondents agreed with mass deportation, something many people would have considered extreme not so very long ago.
The breakdown is also quite surprising, because the issue is clearly no longer Republican only.

---

Quote:

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Of course, there is a strong majority of right-wing Americans supporting the idea, as 68 percent of GOP respondents supported the idea, but it's still quite popular among Democrats and Independents.

A strong 46 percent of Independents and a surprising 42 percent of Democrats said they, too, support mass deportation of illegal immigrants.

Additionally, the survey asked whether Americans supported ending birthright citizenship, something currently guaranteed under the 14th Amendment.

---

Quote:

---

While the majority didn't support it, 46 percent of Republicans and 30 percent of Democrats responded positively to the idea.
The Axios Vibes survey by The Harris Poll was based on what was described as "a nationally representative sample of 6,251 U.S. adults." It was conducted online, March 29-31; April 5-7; and April 12-14, 2024. The margin of error was plus or minus 1.5 percentage points.
What's clear is that Americans want actions to not only deal with the hundreds of thousands of migrants who continue to cross the border, but also the millions who are already within the country.

---

LINK

Good Morning !

Note to @TheLastRefuge2 - You are correct. And

This time its backfiring. Badly https://t.co/2G4xZtadKg pic.twitter.com/YgB0Dj9YtE

— Rasmussen Reports (@Rasmussen_Poll) May 6, 2024

Yes, please.

In reply to nortex97 Keep in mind, Rass is a pretty terrible poll for single points in time, but it is a really good indicator of movement and trends.

I would bet Trump's actual current lead is somewhere around +2, which would probably be a bigger win in the EC than 16.

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

In reply to BigRobSA

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

So, I am going to disagree with your first sentence but that's not worht arguing over.


But I totally agree with your paragraph. I feel like this is going to be a much bigger win for Trump than people realize and it will all be because of the economy. The 'it's the economy stupid' has always been true and there is nothing more impactful on the majority of voters than inflation. This is much worse politically than even the housing market collapse.

And the culture war will certainly take a back seat to the economy.

In reply to BigRobSA

BigRobSA said:

---

they're leaning Trump.....hard.

...

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

Everyone still needs to vote, even if you hate Trump like BigRob, voting against the regime is imperative.

That being said, Marxist regimes DGAF what the people want.

We've already seen this story play out before. They know they can "fortify" the election again with well-funded harvesting operations. They know with their control and influence over all the media sources and tech platforms they can just censor real news and program the masses with their propaganda so brainwashed people ignore what's staring at them right in their face. They've already done all this without consequence. They now know they don't need a good record or results with their failed destructive policies, they don't need influential, compelling, or even competent candidates to prop up in an empty suit, they don't need to worry about rallies and enthusiasm or GOTV efforts or even campaigning and they certainly don't need to worry about "polls".

The predetermined results are already baked into the mickey mouse banana republic system they have created. There is no audit trail to trace or vouch, no canvasing they would ever believe, and packed lower courts and a disinterested, unmotivated and politically weaponized justice department will never give a fk. Don't worry though, they're just doing it to protect democracy (tm).

In reply to Drahknor03

Drahknor03 said:

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Keep in mind, Rass is a pretty terrible poll for single points in time, but it is a really good indicator of movement and trends.

---

And The Last Refuge/ConservativeTreeHouse is a worthless site and should never be used as a source for anything. It is like going to Vox, Slate, Salon, or Mother Jones and expecting factual information. It is just another site people go to in order to have their opinions and beliefs validated.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

We've already seen this story play out before. They know they can "fortify" the election again with well-funded harvesting operations. They know with their control and influence over all the media sources and tech platforms they can just censor real news and program the masses with their propaganda so brainwashed people ignore what's staring at them right in their face. They've already done all this without consequence. They now know they don't need a good record or results with their failed destructive policies, they don't need influential, compelling, or even competent candidates to prop up in an empty suit, they don't need to worry about rallies and enthusiasm or GOTV efforts or even campaigning and they certainly don't need to worry about "polls".

---

Twitter throws a wrench in the works.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

they're leaning Trump.....hard.

...

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

Everyone still needs to vote, even if you hate Trump like BigRob, voting against the regime is imperative.

That being said, Marxist regimes DGAF what the people want.

We've already seen this story play out before. They know they can "fortify" the election again with well-funded harvesting operations. They know with their control and influence over all the media sources and tech platforms they can just censor real news and program the masses with their propaganda so brainwashed people ignore what's staring at them right in their face. They've already done all this without consequence. They now know they don't need a good record or results with their failed destructive policies, they don't need influential, compelling, or even competent candidates to prop up in an empty suit, they don't need to worry about rallies and enthusiasm or GOTV efforts or even campaigning and they certainly don't need to worry about "polls".

The predetermined results are already baked into the mickey mouse banana republic system they have created. There is no audit trail to trace or vouch, no canvasing they would ever believe, and packed lower courts and a disinterested, unmotivated and politically weaponized justice department will never give a fk. Don't worry though, they're just doing it to protect democracy (tm).

---

In reply to BigRobSA

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

I'll believe it when I see it. But in the event that Trump wins by any margin I'll be really curious to know how 2020 will be revised. For four years we've heard from many on our side that 2020 was outright fictitious and the powers that be just created however many votes they needed on election night. And since then they've continued to complain that nothing has been done whatsoever to fix that. So if Trump wins this year will they finally accept that he just plain lost in 2020 or are we supposed to believe that the Dems could have faked it again this year but arbitrarily decided to allow him to be president this time?

In reply to Joes

Joes said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

I'll believe it when I see it. But in the event that Trump wins by any margin I'll be really curious to know how 2020 will be revised. For four years we've heard from many on our side that 2020 was outright fictitious and the powers that be just created however many votes they needed on election night. And since then they've continued to complain that nothing has been done whatsoever to fix that. So if Trump wins this year will they finally accept that he just plain lost in 2020 or are we supposed to believe that the Dems could have faked it again this year but arbitrarily decided to allow him to be president this time?

---

did any swing states do anything about mass-mailing ballots out? about needing ID / proof of citizenship, alive, still live there, over 18, not a felon to register? about needing ID to vote to prove they are registered? about signature verifications? about the number of insecure un-surveilled drop boxes all over the place? about contracting and outsourcing election operations to NGOs? are elitists like zuckerberg as motivated to fund the "fortifying" as well again this go-round?

I'm pretty sure PA, MI did nothing. Did AZ or GA state houses do anything about election integrity? what about NV, NM, WI? is NC lost? Even if biden doesn't win this time, I doubt it could convince anyone that 2020 was on the up and up / most secure election evvaaarrr. It will only indicate a rejection of the biden regime so overwhelming that even the mass mail harvesting couldn't overcome it this time and still not say much about our mickey mouse election systems and processes.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

Joes said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

I'll believe it when I see it. But in the event that Trump wins by any margin I'll be really curious to know how 2020 will be revised. For four years we've heard from many on our side that 2020 was outright fictitious and the powers that be just created however many votes they needed on election night. And since then they've continued to complain that nothing has been done whatsoever to fix that. So if Trump wins this year will they finally accept that he just plain lost in 2020 or are we supposed to believe that the Dems could have faked it again this year but arbitrarily decided to allow him to be president this time?

---

did any swing states do anything about mass-mailing ballots out? about needing ID / proof of citizenship, alive, still live there, over 18, not a felon to register? about needing ID to vote to prove they are registered? about signature verifications? about the number of insecure un-surveilled drop boxes all over the place? about contracting and outsourcing election operations to NGOs? are elitists like zuckerberg as motivated to fund the "fortifying" as well again this go-round?

I'm pretty sure PA, MI did nothing. Did AZ or GA state houses do anything about election integrity? what about NV, NM, WI? is NC lost? Even if biden doesn't win this time, I doubt it could convince anyone that 2020 was on the up and up / most secure election evvaaarrr. It will only indicate a rejection of the biden regime so overwhelming that even the mass mail harvesting couldn't overcome it this time and still not say much about our mickey mouse election systems and processes.

---

Of course there are different levels to viewing 2020 from those that think it was stolen, some argue that some thousands of fake mail-in votes were "found" in just the right spots to squeak by. I get that. But most of the loudest voices were not saying it was a few bags of votes in swing states that were "found" to strategically win states by a few thousand here and a few thousand there. No, they were saying and have continued to say that Trump actually won almost all states, including California, that the voting was essentially paused on election night so they could create however many millions of votes out of thin air they needed.

The whole reason that the "81 million" number is mocked all the time is because they actually think that many millions or even tens of millions of votes were completely fabricated. No one keeps mocking that number because they think it was really "only" 80,782,000 or something. No, they think a giant blanket of 10 or 20 million or even more votes were purely invented. So no, I don't think that those people should continue to be legitimized if Trump wins this time by arguing that "Well, thankfully this time he won by 30 million votes and they only felt comfortable creating 25 million fake votes and so he barely got by.

Lot of cheating still

In reply to agsalaska

agsalaska said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

So, I am going to disagree with your first sentence but that's not worht arguing over.


But I totally agree with your paragraph. I feel like this is going to be a much bigger win for Trump than people realize and it will all be because of the economy. The 'it's the economy stupid' has always been true and there is nothing more impactful on the majority of voters than inflation. This is much worse politically than even the housing market collapse.

And the culture war will certainly take a back seat to the economy.

---

Anyone with some intellectual integrity and the ability to read the room can see that *at this present moment in time* the election is Trump's to lose. The economy and progressive protesters are moving the electorate decidedly rightward, and it'll take an exogenous shock to shift the dynamics of the race that much.

In reply to Malibu Wow, it's tough to accept for me, but you have actually stumbled upon an accurate point. Congrats.

The problem with America-hating Marxists and the low IQ masses brainwashed by their propaganda is that they say people with doubts that 81 million legit legal voters consciously voted for the unaccomplished senile geriatric after proof of his corruption was revealed and censored by the regime, and despite him not campaigning and not being able to get much more than a dozen people to show up his few "rallies", should not be "legitimized". What do you mean by not legitimizing people with doubts about our "fortified", "most secure election ever"?

Doubting that old fool shattered Obama's popular vote records while screaming to a dozen people about not opening the economy until we get more plexiglass means you shouldn't continue to be legitimized? Really?

In reply to Malibu

Malibu said:

---

it'll take an exogenous shock to shift the dynamics of the race that much.

---

prediction: Biden family paid off to send Joe to assisted living. Gavin enters the race.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

Malibu said:

---

it'll take an exogenous shock to shift the dynamics of the race that much.

---

prediction: Biden family paid off to send Joe to assisted living. Gavin enters the race.

---

They may not pay him off to go quietly in the night. It could be a contentious DNC convention in Chi-town. But I'll bet you that someone other than Sleepy Joe is the Democrat candidate when said convention is done.

In reply to oh no Were you asleep in 2020? A pandemic, race riots, and a politician that was uniquely loathed by the left and suburban moms vs. an empty vessel that was "not that guy." It's entirely obvious to me the reasons why voter turnout shattered historical norms. There were more voters because of population growth, and the population was more engaged in politics than it had been since Vietnam, and vote by mail made it easier to vote. The percentage shifts in the Midwest were blips that moved in Biden's direction, even though the raw totals changed.

So, that Biden got 81 million votes and Trump got 74 million (+11MM from 2016) is exactly what I would expect.

Just to drive home the point, would you like to make a friendly wager on Trump's over / under from 2020? As of today, I would easily take Trump winning and the -6MM as the under.

In reply to Joes

Joes said:

---

oh no said:

---

Joes said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

I'll believe it when I see it. But in the event that Trump wins by any margin I'll be really curious to know how 2020 will be revised. For four years we've heard from many on our side that 2020 was outright fictitious and the powers that be just created however many votes they needed on election night. And since then they've continued to complain that nothing has been done whatsoever to fix that. So if Trump wins this year will they finally accept that he just plain lost in 2020 or are we supposed to believe that the Dems could have faked it again this year but arbitrarily decided to allow him to be president this time?

---

did any swing states do anything about mass-mailing ballots out? about needing ID / proof of citizenship, alive, still live there, over 18, not a felon to register? about needing ID to vote to prove they are registered? about signature verifications? about the number of insecure un-surveilled drop boxes all over the place? about contracting and outsourcing election operations to NGOs? are elitists like zuckerberg as motivated to fund the "fortifying" as well again this go-round?

I'm pretty sure PA, MI did nothing. Did AZ or GA state houses do anything about election integrity? what about NV, NM, WI? is NC lost? Even if biden doesn't win this time, I doubt it could convince anyone that 2020 was on the up and up / most secure election evvaaarrr. It will only indicate a rejection of the biden regime so overwhelming that even the mass mail harvesting couldn't overcome it this time and still not say much about our mickey mouse election systems and processes.

---

Of course there are different levels to viewing 2020 from those that think it was stolen, some argue that some thousands of fake mail-in votes were "found" in just the right spots to squeak by. I get that. But most of the loudest voices were not saying it was a few bags of votes in swing states that were "found" to strategically win states by a few thousand here and a few thousand there. No, they were saying and have continued to say that Trump actually won almost all states, including California, that the voting was essentially paused on election night so they could create however many millions of votes out of thin air they needed.

The whole reason that the "81 million" number is mocked all the time is because they actually think that many millions or even tens of millions of votes were completely fabricated. No one keeps mocking that number because they think it was really "only" 80,782,000 or something. No, they think a giant blanket of 10 or 20 million or even more votes were purely invented. So no, I don't think that those people should continue to be legitimized if Trump wins this time by arguing that "Well, thankfully this time he won by 30 million votes and they only felt comfortable creating 25 million fake votes and so he barely got by.

---

They actually believe Dominon and Smartmatic changed 20-30+ million votes from Trump to Biden. This is where the "Trump won California" comes from. To this day, this is the rabbit hole they continue to go down and why all claims and accusations of voter fraud get dismissed out of hand.

The fraud was first of all changing the rules illegally to allow mass mail in ballots. The rest was using those mail in ballots to commit mass ballot harvesting in specific, heavily Democrat counties.

Trump and his team in 2020 went down The Kraken route about Dominon and Smartmatic and it blew up in their face. Instead, they should have focused on the mail in ballots. Probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the election, but it would have been harder for those claims to be dismissed as preposterous like the Dominon and Smartmatic ones were. There is a reason why Fox and other news outlets had to settle with one or both companies.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

Malibu said:

---

it'll take an exogenous shock to shift the dynamics of the race that much.

---

prediction: Biden family paid off to send Joe to assisted living. Gavin enters the race.

---

A smarmy California dewsh isn't going to gain a single voter in Michigan. Gavin entering the race further handicaps the Democrats given the current fundamentals. Gretchen Whitmer or Josh Shapiro could change the race, but if the powers that be haven't put Biden to pasture yet, Occam's razor is that he'll be the nominee.

In reply to oh no

oh no said:

---

The problem with America-hating Marxists and the low IQ masses brainwashed by their propaganda is that they say people with doubts that 81 million legit legal voters consciously voted for the unaccomplished senile geriatric after proof of his corruption was revealed and censored by the regime, and despite him not campaigning and not being able to get much more than a dozen people to show up his few "rallies", should not be "legitimized". What do you mean by not legitimizing people with doubts about our "fortified", "most secure election ever"?

Doubting that old fool shattered Obama's popular vote records while screaming to a dozen people about not opening the economy until we get more plexiglass means you shouldn't continue to be legitimized? Really?

---

So how many votes did Biden legitimately receive last time in your opinion, 50 million? 20 million? 5 million? My point is that some of the claims about the fraud were so insane and extreme that no Trump victory this time could be compatible with that conspiracy.

If the argument is that the Dems could manage to get away with faking 10,000 votes here and 40,000 there in strategic elections and hide it then ok, I completely understand that a larger Trump margin could overcome those efforts this time. But when the claims are, as they have been, that no matter what margin of millions Trump had last time the Dems just counted to see what they needed and added that on election night then no, that makes no sense.

These idiots are already saying that Trump got tens of millions of votes more than the Dems last time and the other side simply made more. Well then, what difference does the margin make? If we get 5 they'll make 10, if we get 20 they'll make 30. if we get 75 million they'll make 80 million. So to argue that we just need to get more to overcome that makes no sense! If their side will always be "our number plus 1" then saying "Maybe we'll get enough this time to overcome that" is outright hilarious.

In reply to Rapier108

Rapier108 said:

---

Joes said:

---

oh no said:

---

Joes said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Polls are unscientific gobbledygook.

I work with mostly black and Hispanic workers in manufacturing. Before the primaries, they weren't for Trump (nor Biden). Most were for Desantis because they didn't like Trump. Now that we're stuck with the two liberal octagenarian idiots, they're leaning Trump.....hard. all because "when Trump was President, things didn't cost as much". Bidenomics (taking the fiscally liberal spending/money printing of Trump and turning it to eleventy) will be the undoing of the Dems this election. People may think Dem social stances are better, but when you bust your ass just to live week-to-week, you look past that stupidity and vote your pocketbook.

If this keeps up, it might be a relative landslide. But I thought that in 2020, too. :/

---

I'll believe it when I see it. But in the event that Trump wins by any margin I'll be really curious to know how 2020 will be revised. For four years we've heard from many on our side that 2020 was outright fictitious and the powers that be just created however many votes they needed on election night. And since then they've continued to complain that nothing has been done whatsoever to fix that. So if Trump wins this year will they finally accept that he just plain lost in 2020 or are we supposed to believe that the Dems could have faked it again this year but arbitrarily decided to allow him to be president this time?

---

did any swing states do anything about mass-mailing ballots out? about needing ID / proof of citizenship, alive, still live there, over 18, not a felon to register? about needing ID to vote to prove they are registered? about signature verifications? about the number of insecure un-surveilled drop boxes all over the place? about contracting and outsourcing election operations to NGOs? are elitists like zuckerberg as motivated to fund the "fortifying" as well again this go-round?

I'm pretty sure PA, MI did nothing. Did AZ or GA state houses do anything about election integrity? what about NV, NM, WI? is NC lost? Even if biden doesn't win this time, I doubt it could convince anyone that 2020 was on the up and up / most secure election evvaaarrr. It will only indicate a rejection of the biden regime so overwhelming that even the mass mail harvesting couldn't overcome it this time and still not say much about our mickey mouse election systems and processes.

---

Of course there are different levels to viewing 2020 from those that think it was stolen, some argue that some thousands of fake mail-in votes were "found" in just the right spots to squeak by. I get that. But most of the loudest voices were not saying it was a few bags of votes in swing states that were "found" to strategically win states by a few thousand here and a few thousand there. No, they were saying and have continued to say that Trump actually won almost all states, including California, that the voting was essentially paused on election night so they could create however many millions of votes out of thin air they needed.

The whole reason that the "81 million" number is mocked all the time is because they actually think that many millions or even tens of millions of votes were completely fabricated. No one keeps mocking that number because they think it was really "only" 80,782,000 or something. No, they think a giant blanket of 10 or 20 million or even more votes were purely invented. So no, I don't think that those people should continue to be legitimized if Trump wins this time by arguing that "Well, thankfully this time he won by 30 million votes and they only felt comfortable creating 25 million fake votes and so he barely got by.

---

They actually believe Dominon and Smartmatic changed 20-30+ million votes from Biden to Trump. This is where the "Trump won California" comes from. To this day, this is the rabbit hole they continue to go down and why all claims and accusations of voter fraud get dismissed out of hand.

The fraud was first of all changing the rules illegally to allow mass mail in ballots. The rest was using those mail in ballots to commit mass ballot harvesting in specific, heavily Democrat counties.

Trump and his team in 2020 went down The Kraken route about Dominon and Smartmatic and it blew up in their face. Instead, they should have focused on the mail in ballots. Probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the election, but it would have been harder for those claims to be dismissed as preposterous like the Dominon and Smartmatic ones were. There is a reason why Fox and other news outlets had to settle with one or both companies.

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Agreed. All I'm saying is that while I'm not much of a conspiracy guy I'm at least open to the idea that some cheating went on because my opinion of people is generally low enough to know that some people will always cheat when they can.

But for a huge number of the fraud claims my point is this, and I don't know how to make it any simpler. The specific claims for many is that, using round numbers, the Dems counted 75 million votes for Trump on election night and saw that they had 60 million themselves. So they paused the election and scratched out 60 million and wrote down 80 million instead. And now people on our side are saying "we just need to have a larger margin this time." Why?????? By their own claims if we get 80 million they'll make 90 million, if we get 150 million they'll make 200 million.

Those are the specific claims I'm talking about that need to be mocked out of existence if Trump wins this year. And yes, there are many people who say that's literally what happened last time, basically anyone that writes "81MM*" is included in that.

In reply to Joes You would be better off ignoring him and anyone else peddling that nonsense.

Biden is pulling even in the latest polls.

The Rasmussen poll looks like an outlier, they must suck at polling because they usually give Biden good approval ratings consistently around 45. Then their poll shows Trump blowing him out.

There is absolutely no way in my mind that Trump can win the national vote, so anything below a +2 for Biden in general, should alarm Dems.

This is going to be a very interesting election.

Biden already using Gov. dollars to push a "get out and vote" campaign he says is not biased. Yeahhhhhhhhhh right.

Dems are unhinged and doing everything possible to keep Trump from winning again.

I have some personal bias around Fabrizio but this is an outstanding article from the bulwark of all places, regarding the state of polls today.

Snip: feeling good.

Quote:

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THE POLLING OF THE TRUMP-BIDEN RACE is the inverse of early May 2020. Then, Trump was marginally trailing Biden in those seven swing states. (Ultimately, Biden would win six of the sevenall but North Carolina.) And back then, Fabrizio was privately fretting that Trump was losing the election as COVID swept the nation, killed and terrified Americans, and led to widespread shutdowns amid the president's chaotic response.

"Tony's usually the one guy in the room who's the voice of real caution, so I guess I feel good about where we are. But if Tony's optimistic, I'll admit it's kinda weird," one Republican who has worked with him said.
Here's the state of play now in the crucial swing states, compared to 2020, according to RealClearPolitics, the source that Fabrizio cited Saturday:

Nevada: Trump now leads by 4.5 percentage points. At this point in 2020, Nevada had no April or May polls. It had one poll from March, an Emerson survey, showing Biden up by 4 points. (In November 2020, Biden won Nevada by 2.4 points.)
Arizona: Trump now leads by 5.0 points. By this point in 2020, one poll, in April, showed Biden leading by 9 pointsbut the RCP running average by this point in 2020 had Biden up by 5.3 points. (Biden won Arizona by 0.3 points.)
Georgia: Trump now leads by 3.8 points. At this point in 2020, Georgia had no polls in April or May. A poll completed in early March from the University of Georgia showed Trump up by 8 points. (Biden won Georgia by less than 0.3 points.)
North Carolina: Trump now leads by 5.4 points. At this point in 2020, polling averages showed Trump up by less than a point. (Trump won North Carolina by 1.3 points.)
Michigan: Trump now leads by 1.2 points. At this point in 2020, Michigan had one recent poll, an April survey from Fox News, showing Biden leading by 8 points. (Biden won Michigan by 2.8 points.)
Wisconsin: Trump now leads by 1.8 points. In the first week of May 2020, a Wisconsin poll by Marquette University showed Biden leading by 3 points. (Biden won Wisconsin by 0.6 points.)
Pennsylvania: Trump now leads by 1.8 points. At this point in 2020, the RCP polling average showed Biden up by 4.5 points. (Biden won Pennsylvania by 1.2 points.)

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