Seeing this more and more. Anyone have experience with this policy? I've heard negative things and that employees end us taking less time off on average. Seems like it might make sense in a small company?

True, I'm under no impression it is truly "unlimited". Just curious if it had been done well before or if it's all bad.

The company my son works for has a policy somewhat like this, but they have a relatively low base salary and then most of what they earn is a percentage of the money they bring in. This is split between the members of the team who worked on the project and is determined by their manager.

Don't show up and contribute, you won't be getting an equal share. Show up and carry the load for the missing team member, get rewarded.

Eventually, if you don't contribute, you will get run off.

He tends to work overtime when needed, makes holes in his schedule when he needs/wants time off, covers for others when they need/want time off and they do the same for him.

Currently have unlimited PTO. Not officially tracked. Work for a woke start up out of west coast within the sales org. Can say I don't take enough time off. Feel "guilt" when I do because sales never ends.

Did get 4 months of paid pat leave though so can't complain about that.

Captain Winky said:

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I just changed jobs and it was nice to get 3 1/2 weeks paid out because I had unused PTO.

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I was let go and those 3 1/2 weeks of accrued and rolled over PTO were never paid out. I understand they screwed me but the owner is a vindictive billionaire playboy who lives for fights.

I'm now at my second company with unlimited PTO. It still requires manager approval, so it's not like you can take off every Friday for the year or two months in the summer.

At my last job I worked probably 80 hrs/week and took a max of 3 weeks of PTO. And I was typically still working a bit while on PTO. What I didn't do while I was off, someone else on the team had to cover. So it sort of polices itself among the team. No one wants to be the jerk that forces others to cover for them constantly.

At current job I think I took 2 weeks last year and I'm on pace to take less than 3 weeks this year (based on what I've preemptively scheduled). Again, we're short-staffed so if I take off, someone else who is already overloaded has to cover.

So yeah, in general unlimited PTO isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I have worked at several companies with unlimited PTO. Even 14 years ago. It has pros and cons. Like folks said, it doesn't really go beyond 4-5 weeks max. So you can use it if you want to travel overseas in December. People won't nitpick over a day or two here and there in most cases. Downside is you don't get paid when you quit so better take as much as you can when you are there.

It is not a big perk for me as I don't take too many days off.

Had this at my last job. Good luck using more than 3 weeks. 3 weeks was even a stretch. They were an awful outfit and this was just one example of many of them screwing over the employees.

I think your experience with unlimited PTO ultimately comes down to your manager, your team and your performance. We have unlimited PTO and I take off whenever I want no questions asked. As long as my work is completed and my team is working without issues or escalations no problem. I've also received superior annual review ratings the last two years. I think that helps with the boss not asking questions. I've taken the equivalent of three weeks for the year between kids school events, surgery, wife's miscarriage, and just because days (get stuff done around the house or errands). That said, I've also worked outside of regular work hours when partnering on projects with teams in other regions so some really early or really late calls. In the end it all balances out.

I'm 10 years in so 4-5 weeks of vacation is typical. Last year at a previous company with unlimited PTO I was on track to take 7 weeks. My boss didn't care (part of the problem…) and approved everything and my workload and role was slow. I left the company in October, they laid off my replacement last month. Vindication.

As others have said, unlimited PTO is none of the benefits and all of the downsides. You are generally still shoehorned in to the same "budget " allotment and you don't have a balance that pays out if you leave or are laid off. Several studies have also shown that people with unlimited PTO take less since there is not an entitlement surrounding it.

First, I'm not a fan of unlimited PTO, so not intending it to come across that way. But is the not having to pay it out really a reason companies are switching to this policy? I mean, just because you get a defined number of days doesn't mean the company has to pay them if you leave. I've been at a couple companies where it was specifically outlined in the policies that vacation would not be paid out. Unless they just effed me over.....

But, as said above, not a fan of it. Someone mentioned they like it because of no longer having the use it or lose it issue. I guess I like that issue. It's clearly defined that these are my x days, in my case 6 weeks. There are zero questions anywhere in the org if I use my 6 weeks, it's expected.

htxag09 said:

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First, I'm not a fan of unlimited PTO, so not intending it to come across that way. But is the not having to pay it out really a reason companies are switching to this policy? I mean, just because you get a defined number of days doesn't mean the company has to pay them if you leave. I've been at a couple companies where it was specifically outlined in the policies that vacation would not be paid out. Unless they just effed me over.....

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Absolutely. As previously mentioned, a lot of states have laws that require employers to pay out unused PTO when an employee exits, and a lot of large companies have this policy as well. Every company Ive ever worked for paid out unused PTO when I left.

I did some quick math, the average turnover rate for US companies is between 17-24%, lets split the difference and say 20%. A company like Google has around 182k full time employees. If they have a 20% turnover rate, and the average employee makes around $100k (this is probably low), and the average employee has 2 weeks of unused PTO when they leave, that is around $145,600,000 they are paying out in unused PTO every year.

This is of course a generality and in no way approximate, but its just a hypothetical situation that a lot of large companies face that have a huge employee population and significant turnover. Going to unlimited PTO would be a huge cost savings for a lot of large corporations.

The different state laws makes sense. I'm an idiot, not sure why I didn't think about that.

I don't technically have unlimited time off, but I'm w/ a very small company. No HR. No official policy on vacation or sick days. Pro is that it's very flexible and easy to take off on short notice. Con is I probably don't take off as much as I could.

No one technically has "unlimited" PTO. You are more the less the in the same situation as someone who has a job with "unlimited" PTO, IMO.

So how long until someone with "unlimited PTO" in a state that requires it be paid out sues their employer for something like 8 weeks of PTO after being laid off/resigning?

I've had unlimited PTO the past few years.
I like it.

Generally yes, people take less time off, but that's also a mindset and culture as these are fast moving startups. Employees want to work and move fast. PTO is there when needed, but generally the type of people employed are very high performers who care about getting work done, not maximizing time away from work. They don't value huge amounts of PTO, they value meaningful work.

If you use your PTO as a piggy bank so when you leave you make money, because you didn't take vacation, you're doing it wrong.

Premium said:

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If you use your PTO as a piggy bank so when you leave you make money, because you didn't take vacation, you're doing it wrong.

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Agreed. I keep 2 weeks in my back pocket for random days. But I take all 5 weeks and the comp time I get each year, we can only carry 80 over a year anyways.

My previous company had unlimited PTO when i was hired and some young folks took a lot of vacation. Like 5+ weeks. The company later revised it to "flexible" PTO but still no limits are stated. At that company it depended on your boss. I heard of 2 different managers gripe about people taking too much time. Mine was one of them. He gave me a hard time about taking 4 weeks in a year. I wish I'd called him out on it and asked, "what is your expectation." I left mostly because of him (other stuff besides PTO). He left recently under some dramatics terms.... I agree it's a way to avoid paying out.

powerbelly said:

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I think it is a liability on the balance sheet that goes away.

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This. And it sounds attractive when marketing job openings.

In practice, it makes zero difference. Policies still define recommended PTO amounts and still require management approval. The usually give a range from year to year but that's effectively the same as allowing carryover PTO.

500,000ags said:

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"Unlimited" PTO - code for 2-3 weeks and no payout.

In tech, the only people it really benefits is those data and engineering sprint-oriented roles where they are willing to work like a dog (50-60 hours a week) and then go on a 3 week vacation every six months.

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Man, in owning a business, I thought 50-60 hours of work was a normal week. I didn't realize I was working like a dog.

bmks270 said:

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I've had unlimited PTO the past few years.
I like it.

Generally yes, people take less time off, but that's also a mindset and culture as these are fast moving startups. Employees want to work and move fast. PTO is there when needed, but generally the type of people employed are very high performers who care about getting work done, not maximizing time away from work. They don't value huge amounts of PTO, they value meaningful work.

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This. I don't have unlimited PTO but in reality I do. My boss knows I'm results oriented so he knows I will do what it takes to produce the results I want to achieve. He knows I will only take the time I absolutely need and not a minute more. I enter PTO about once a quarter when I look back over my calendar to see what days I was really away.

Wish more people were like this…