No, no, no, no, no. You insulted him a little bit. You got a little bit out of order yourself.
And so it begins ... Bad news for the bike laners
18,035 Views |
195 Replies |
Last: 22 hrs ago by wessimo
I apologize. I'm running on about a month of no sleep now so may be a little irritable.Panama Red said:
No, no, no, no, no. You insulted him a little bit. You got a little bit out of order yourself.
I also take Shepherd/Durham everyday and the idea of pausing it in it's current state, when I do believe it is a good project, bike lane or not, and delaying the construction even longer is pretty frustrating.....
This is a poorly written article. Phase 1 of the project isn't being paused. Phase 2 (from I-10 to 15th St.) is the one that's on hold.Furlock Bones said:
Shepherd and Durham project officially paused. This city is such a cluster **** of stupidity.
https://abc13.com/houston-construction-projects-project-paused-in-the-heights-shepherd-and-durham-drive-federal-funding-at-risk/14747643/?ex_cid=TA_KTRK_TW&taid=66321c062fefcd00015a6fdb&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Hey, as long as it doesn't impact you, it's probably fine.As much as y'all cried about 11th being F'ed up, there's more impact to Shepherd.Ryan the Temp said:If the performance of traffic on Shepherd as two lanes (as it's been for at least the last year) is any indication, it should be just fine. I'm like you - I don't see an issue with the Shepherd improvements because they are much different than 11th. Having the bike lanes completely separated from the road and the addition of trees between the bike lane and street is great. It looks nice and is much safer than what they did to 11th.Chewy said:
I was/am against the bike lanes on 11th but don't necessarily have a problem with what they're doing on Shepherd.
My main question is what does traffic data show to roads going from 4 lanes to 3 lanes and how was that data used to study traffic volume/flow/patterns on Shepherd and Durham?
Assuming it's not going to be a massive factor I'm all for making Shepherd and Durham more pleasant in that stretch.
No doubt it's going to create a bigger bottleneck during rush hour but curious how long that really lasts and how much of a bottleneck it creates.
It's the only north / south direct street from 610 north loop to I-10 in the northwest corner of the loop. And really from 610 north all the way to 59S if you jump over to Kirby. As awesome as Memorial Park is, it, the train yards, and the bayous all cut off the entire northwest corner inside the loop from any connectivity. Neither Ella nor T.C. Jester go through (and their traffic is generally funneled to 610 or Shepherd where they end).
So those of us in the second largest neighborhood in Houston have only 3 options to head south. 610 parking lot traffic at the Galleria, Shepherd, or 45 parking lot downtown. There's a reason Shepherd was 4 lanes and this project has been indiotic. It was a beautification project disguised as a lot of other things. But all it does is bottleneck the main N/S route of traffic through the city in the name of making bikers safer. Except all it's done is push traffic through the side neighborhoods and smaller roads running N/S that has only made things less safe for kids, families, and bikers.
So just like 11th street, just at a magnitude of order greater. There isn't a competent traffic Engineer that doesn't look at that map and understand cutting the flow in half is idiotic. Our travel time south from Garden Oaks during Rodeo went from 45 minutes to 1:30 hours. And that's before they actually bottleneck it to 2 lanes with the dumb project they just put on hold.
Thankfully, our new mayor lives at the southeast corner of Memorial Park and has been impacted by this crap show.
Pink is Shepherd, green is Kirby.
It took 25 minutes yesterday around 4:45 to get from 14th to 34th. Thats about 1.5 miles.
Also, how was Little's Oyster Bar? I want to go, but don't want to be called out a yuppie trying to impress people by eating oysters. Any tips are appreciated.
Also, how was Little's Oyster Bar? I want to go, but don't want to be called out a yuppie trying to impress people by eating oysters. Any tips are appreciated.
Panama Red said:
It took 25 minutes yesterday around 4:45 to get from 14th to 34th. Thats about 1.5 miles.
Since they've started north of 24th to 610 it's been unbelievably bad. I assume it's because essentially only 2 lanes are flowing through the light at 610. The construction has been bearable to to this point. But I now either take Yale or tc jester.
You may want to re-check your fractions. The lanes are being reduced from 4 to 3 on each roadway. Any further reduction is solely due to construction activities.
Shepherd is 3 lanes (each direction) north of 610 and 3 lanes from Washington to Memorial, then 2 lanes (each direction) south of Memorial. The Durham bridge over the bayou is only 3 lanes.
There were two different traffic studies that independently came to the same conclusion - that the traffic volumes only support needing 3 lanes with turn lanes at specific intersections. There are projects that are worthy of critical scrutiny (i.e. 11th St.), but the Shepherd-Durham project shouldn't be lumped into the same category, IMO.
Shepherd is 3 lanes (each direction) north of 610 and 3 lanes from Washington to Memorial, then 2 lanes (each direction) south of Memorial. The Durham bridge over the bayou is only 3 lanes.
There were two different traffic studies that independently came to the same conclusion - that the traffic volumes only support needing 3 lanes with turn lanes at specific intersections. There are projects that are worthy of critical scrutiny (i.e. 11th St.), but the Shepherd-Durham project shouldn't be lumped into the same category, IMO.
The part that was just shelved was to cut it to 2 lanes according to the PM on the job. Anyone that thinks a major artery going from 4 lanes down to 2 along the route isn't a big deal doesn't understand vehicular traffic.YellAg2004 said:
You may want to re-check your fractions. The lanes are being reduced from 4 to 3 on each roadway. Any further reduction is solely due to construction activities.
Shepherd is 3 lanes (each direction) north of 610 and 3 lanes from Washington to Memorial, then 2 lanes (each direction) south of Memorial. The Durham bridge over the bayou is only 3 lanes.
There were two different traffic studies that independently came to the same conclusion - that the traffic volumes only support needing 3 lanes with turn lanes at specific intersections. There are projects that are worthy of critical scrutiny (i.e. 11th St.), but the Shepherd-Durham project shouldn't be lumped into the same category, IMO.
And traffic studies are like any other statistical analysis. They show whatever the person giving the presentation wants them to show. They were wrong on most other similar projects and they are egregiously wrong on this one.
The street supports whatever it can. Making it smaller and pushing traffic historically using that street to others is what happens. No different to the dumb speed bump program that wasted money and made neighborhoods less safe. Funneling traffic to smaller ancillary streets and through residential neighborhoods not designed for it is a horrible and dangerous way to manage traffic. And that's exactly what is taking place.
It's one thing if we're talking about new neighborhoods with sidewalks and wide streets, but we're not. Much of the neighborhoods bordering this project that have seen an uptick in traffic are some of the oldest in town with extremely narrow streets, no sidewalks, and ditches. That's a horrible combination for the families that live there.
It would have been faster to bike there. Problem solved!AgLA06 said:Hey, as long as it doesn't impact you, it's probably fine.As much as y'all cried about 11th being F'ed up, there's more impact to Shepherd.Ryan the Temp said:If the performance of traffic on Shepherd as two lanes (as it's been for at least the last year) is any indication, it should be just fine. I'm like you - I don't see an issue with the Shepherd improvements because they are much different than 11th. Having the bike lanes completely separated from the road and the addition of trees between the bike lane and street is great. It looks nice and is much safer than what they did to 11th.Chewy said:
I was/am against the bike lanes on 11th but don't necessarily have a problem with what they're doing on Shepherd.
My main question is what does traffic data show to roads going from 4 lanes to 3 lanes and how was that data used to study traffic volume/flow/patterns on Shepherd and Durham?
Assuming it's not going to be a massive factor I'm all for making Shepherd and Durham more pleasant in that stretch.
No doubt it's going to create a bigger bottleneck during rush hour but curious how long that really lasts and how much of a bottleneck it creates.
It's the only north / south direct street from 610 north loop to I-10 in the northwest corner of the loop. And really from 610 north all the way to 59S if you jump over to Kirby. As awesome as Memorial Park is, it, the train yards, and the bayous all cut off the entire northwest corner inside the loop from any connectivity. Neither Ella nor T.C. Jester go through (and their traffic is generally funneled to 610 or Shepherd where they end).
So those of us in the second largest neighborhood in Houston have only 3 options to head south. 610 parking lot traffic at the Galleria, Shepherd, or 45 parking lot downtown. There's a reason Shepherd was 4 lanes and this project has been indiotic. It was a beautification project disguised as a lot of other things. But all it does is bottleneck the main N/S route of traffic through the city in the name of making bikers safer. Except all it's done is push traffic through the side neighborhoods and smaller roads running N/S that has only made things less safe for kids, families, and bikers.
So just like 11th street, just at a magnitude of order greater. There isn't a competent traffic Engineer that doesn't look at that map and understand cutting the flow in half is idiotic. Our travel time south from Garden Oaks during Rodeo went from 45 minutes to 1:30 hours. And that's before they actually bottleneck it to 2 lanes with the dumb project they just put on hold.
Thankfully, our new mayor lives at the southeast corner of Memorial Park and has been impacted by this crap show.
Pink is Shepherd, green is Kirby.
Too late, you'll die if you eat raw oysters now that we're in months w/ no 'r'.Panama Red said:
It took 25 minutes yesterday around 4:45 to get from 14th to 34th. Thats about 1.5 miles.
Also, how was Little's Oyster Bar? I want to go, but don't want to be called out a yuppie trying to impress people by eating oysters. Any tips are appreciated.
Not sure on Little's, but Xin Chao has good raw & chargrilled oysters.
Do you mind sharing a link or even where you heard that the roadway is being reduced to 2 lanes? I ask because that's factually incorrect. No design exists to reduce Shepherd and/or Durham to 2 lanes (outside of construction closures).AgLA06 said:The part that was just shelved was to cut it to 2 lanes according to the PM on the job. Anyone that thinks a major artery going from 4 lanes down to 2 along the route isn't a big deal doesn't understand vehicular traffic.YellAg2004 said:
You may want to re-check your fractions. The lanes are being reduced from 4 to 3 on each roadway. Any further reduction is solely due to construction activities.
Shepherd is 3 lanes (each direction) north of 610 and 3 lanes from Washington to Memorial, then 2 lanes (each direction) south of Memorial. The Durham bridge over the bayou is only 3 lanes.
There were two different traffic studies that independently came to the same conclusion - that the traffic volumes only support needing 3 lanes with turn lanes at specific intersections. There are projects that are worthy of critical scrutiny (i.e. 11th St.), but the Shepherd-Durham project shouldn't be lumped into the same category, IMO.
And traffic studies are like any other statistical analysis. They show whatever the person giving the presentation wants them to show. They were wrong on most other similar projects and they are egregiously wrong on this one.
The street supports whatever it can. Making it smaller and pushing traffic historically using that street to others is what happens. No different to the dumb speed bump program that wasted money and made neighborhoods less safe. Funneling traffic to smaller ancillary streets and through residential neighborhoods not designed for it is a horrible and dangerous way to manage traffic. And that's exactly what is taking place.
It's one thing if we're talking about new neighborhoods with sidewalks and wide streets, but we're not. Much of the neighborhoods bordering this project that have seen an uptick in traffic are some of the oldest in town with extremely narrow streets, no sidewalks, and ditches. That's a horrible combination for the families that live there.
But it's imperative to F all this up in the name of hike and bike so the bikers get another route to the breweries!!!!
I don't have access to any. It's what I was told from one of the PMs on the job that I used to work with. I went to the website, but they've already removed the project from what I can tell. So no way to access the drawings.
What I was told was it was going to limit lanes north of Kirby just like the stretch south of there to 59. Similar to this section for Antoine (which cuts that major artery from 290 to 249 through Oak Forest and Forest West down as well.) Which appears to be the new design standard for major roads.
It's like the ultimatum was to limit vehicular traffic in the city at the same time the city needs all the growth and tax dollars it can get.
What I was told was it was going to limit lanes north of Kirby just like the stretch south of there to 59. Similar to this section for Antoine (which cuts that major artery from 290 to 249 through Oak Forest and Forest West down as well.) Which appears to be the new design standard for major roads.
It's like the ultimatum was to limit vehicular traffic in the city at the same time the city needs all the growth and tax dollars it can get.
If anyone is interested, the Heights Association is putting on an hour "tour" of the project and to get more info.
I'm going to one of them. I'll be the little short Mexican fella in jorts and sleeveless shirt.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/shepherd-durham-project-site-visit-tickets-893888794447
I'm going to one of them. I'll be the little short Mexican fella in jorts and sleeveless shirt.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/shepherd-durham-project-site-visit-tickets-893888794447
All I can tell you is that that guy was either completely mistaken, or there was a misunderstanding about what area he was talking about. The section between I-10 and 610 has always been designed for 3 lanes. Now there's a bit of a distance from Kirby to north of I-10, so maybe he was talking about somewhere in between. The Shepherd bridge over Memorial is only 2 lanes each direction, so maybe that's what he was referring to. As soon as you get north of Memorial you have the COH project that just re-did Shepherd and Durham up to Washington with...3 lanes in each direction.AgLA06 said:
I don't have access to any. It's what I was told from one of the PMs on the job that I used to work with. I went to the website, but they've already removed the project from what I can tell. So no way to access the drawings.
What I was told was it was going to limit lanes north of Kirby just like the stretch south of there to 59. Similar to this section for Antoine (which cuts that major artery from 290 to 249 through Oak Forest and Forest West down as well.) Which appears to be the new design standard for major roads.
It's like the ultimatum was to limit vehicular traffic in the city at the same time the city needs all the growth and tax dollars it can get.
I am surprised this is free.Chewy said:
If anyone is interested, the Heights Association is putting on an hour "tour" of the project and to get more info.
I'm going to one of them. I'll be the little short Mexican fella in jorts and sleeveless shirt.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/shepherd-durham-project-site-visit-tickets-893888794447
I'd think you could charge at least $5 for an hour tour of road construction.
[url=https://ts.la/erik936611]https://ts.la/erik936611[/url]
Use my referral link to buy a Tesla and get awards like 3 months of Full Self-Driving Capability.
Schedule a Tesla Demo Drive using my referral link.
Use my referral link to buy a Tesla and get awards like 3 months of Full Self-Driving Capability.
Schedule a Tesla Demo Drive using my referral link.
A few notes from the tours they offered:
1) Phase 1 is 15th to 610 and they hope to be completed by Fall of 2025. That's barring any massive weather issues.
2) Phase 2 is I-10 to 15th street. 15th was chosen as the line due to how drainage runs. North of 15th flows to 610 and South to I-10. Phase 2 has been designed and grants secured. The only thing left is bidding the project.
3) The Mayor required all city projects that haven't started construction and involve traffic lane reductions to be paused. This is a city wide thing and not just the Shepherd/Durham project. There is no timeline for removing the pause or approving any projects.
4) Apparently there is someone on Whitmire's staff against any reduction of lanes so Phase 2 is in question. Not sure what would happen but sounds like the mayor has the power to put it to a Council vote. I guess Council still has to approve after the bidding is done. I could be wrong in this but if the mayor never puts it to Council then Council can't act on it. RTT can probably clarify this.
5) It is a 4 lane reduction to 3. You can see much of the final look between 15th and 17th.
6) There will be turn lanes to help the flow of traffic. Sounds like these will be in addition to the 3 lanes. I believe these will be mostly at lights like 19th and 20th.
7) Phase 3 isn't a thing yet but would involve work on the cross streets around Shepherd and Durham to make them nicer. Some are being done as part of the drainage work but not all.
8) This is being funded by the area TIRZ and grant money. The TIRZ is a special district that essentially takes a portion of the increased property taxes to invest in infrastructure in that area.
9) Three separate studies were done by different firms over a few years that indicate the 3 lanes can handle current and future traffic loads. I believe the future number used is 20 years. I get studies can result in whatever you want but this is what was mentioned.
My take is this is a good project. Shepherd and Durham have been an eyesore since I moved here in 98. I don't think 4 to 3 lanes is going to change the flow that much.
I'm not sure how many people are going to walk and bike Shepherd and Durham between 10 and 610, but aesthetically it's a MASSIVE improvement.
They really put a lot of thought into the trees and lights so it'll definitely look much better when done.
1) Phase 1 is 15th to 610 and they hope to be completed by Fall of 2025. That's barring any massive weather issues.
2) Phase 2 is I-10 to 15th street. 15th was chosen as the line due to how drainage runs. North of 15th flows to 610 and South to I-10. Phase 2 has been designed and grants secured. The only thing left is bidding the project.
3) The Mayor required all city projects that haven't started construction and involve traffic lane reductions to be paused. This is a city wide thing and not just the Shepherd/Durham project. There is no timeline for removing the pause or approving any projects.
4) Apparently there is someone on Whitmire's staff against any reduction of lanes so Phase 2 is in question. Not sure what would happen but sounds like the mayor has the power to put it to a Council vote. I guess Council still has to approve after the bidding is done. I could be wrong in this but if the mayor never puts it to Council then Council can't act on it. RTT can probably clarify this.
5) It is a 4 lane reduction to 3. You can see much of the final look between 15th and 17th.
6) There will be turn lanes to help the flow of traffic. Sounds like these will be in addition to the 3 lanes. I believe these will be mostly at lights like 19th and 20th.
7) Phase 3 isn't a thing yet but would involve work on the cross streets around Shepherd and Durham to make them nicer. Some are being done as part of the drainage work but not all.
8) This is being funded by the area TIRZ and grant money. The TIRZ is a special district that essentially takes a portion of the increased property taxes to invest in infrastructure in that area.
9) Three separate studies were done by different firms over a few years that indicate the 3 lanes can handle current and future traffic loads. I believe the future number used is 20 years. I get studies can result in whatever you want but this is what was mentioned.
My take is this is a good project. Shepherd and Durham have been an eyesore since I moved here in 98. I don't think 4 to 3 lanes is going to change the flow that much.
I'm not sure how many people are going to walk and bike Shepherd and Durham between 10 and 610, but aesthetically it's a MASSIVE improvement.
They really put a lot of thought into the trees and lights so it'll definitely look much better when done.
Well USA Auto Brokers at 17th has more room to put their overpriced cars on the wider sidewalk now.Chewy said:
A few notes from the tours they offered:
1) Phase 1 is 15th to 610 and they hope to be complete by Fall of 2025. That's barring any massive weather issues.
2) Phase 2 is I-10 to 15th street. 15th was chosen as the line due to how drainage runs. North of 15th flows to 610 and South to I-10.
3) The Mayor required all projects that haven't started construction and involve traffic lane reductions to be paused. There is no timeline for removing the pause or approving any projects.
3) Apparently there is someone on Whitmire's staff against any reduction of lanes so Phase 2 is in question. Apparently the mayor has to the power to put it to a Council vote. I could be wrong in this but if the mayor never puts it to Council then Council can't act on it. RTT can probably clarify this.
4) It is a 4 lane reduction to 3. You can see much of the final look between 15th and 17th.
5) There will be turn lanes to help the flow of traffic.
6) Phase 3 isn't a thing yet but would involve work on the cross streets around Shepherd and Durham to make them nicer. Some are being done as part of the drainage work but not all.
7) This is being funded by the area TIRZ and grant money. The TIRZ is a special district that essentially takes a portion of the increased property taxes to invest in infrastructure in that area.
8) Three separate studies were done by different firms over a few years that indicate the 3 lanes can handle current and future traffic loads. I believe the future number used is 20 years. I get studies can result in whatever you want but this is what was mentioned.
My take is this is a good project. Shepherd and Durham have been an eyesore since I moved here in 98. I don't think 4 to 3 lanes is going to change the flow that much.
I'm not sure how many people are going to walk and bike Shepherd and Durham between 10 and 610, but aesthetically it's a MASSIVE improvement.
They really put a lot of thought into the trees and lights so it'll definitely look much better when done.
DAMMIT!!!
I completely forgot to ask why this project has no plaque or even a statue memorializing the Two Dollar Bill Man.
The man was a staple of Shepherd and Durham. Texas Cafeteria, used cars, and a way to turn pilfered metals into 2 dollar bills is what Shepherd and Durham used to be known for.
It's come a long ways…
I completely forgot to ask why this project has no plaque or even a statue memorializing the Two Dollar Bill Man.
The man was a staple of Shepherd and Durham. Texas Cafeteria, used cars, and a way to turn pilfered metals into 2 dollar bills is what Shepherd and Durham used to be known for.
It's come a long ways…
Biked the finished parts of S+D with the fam on Saturday. It is definitely a major improvement over the way the streets used to be.
Featured Stories
See All
Father Knows Best: Shane Rink embraces Landon's Aggieland future
by Olin Buchanan
31:49
1d ago
5.5k
Elko & Co. remain busy even during a traditional recruiting respite
by Ryan Brauninger
11:09
6h ago
1.5k
Baseball Thoughts: Inside Texas A&M's uncharacteristic series at LSU
by Ryan Brauninger
Cowboy Curtis
Props to our collective. Keeping all 3 QB's was a massive win.
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
107
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
Dabo Has Brought in Zero Transfers (Yet Again)
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
89
ConfidentAg
Props to our collective. Keeping all 3 QB's was a massive win.
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
36