***** 2024 Houston Astros Season Thread ***** [Staff Warning] - Page 378

GigEM96

4:36p, 4/25/24

Crane fired a GM after winning a World Series because he didn't like the cut of his jib

Crane rolled and got rid of Luhnow

Gonna be feeling the pinch at the gate a little, attendance will crater as season progresses

cc10106

4:41p, 4/25/24

In reply to GigEM96

What about those nearby hotel and entertainment district plans he has as well?

f1ghtintexasaggie

4:42p, 4/25/24

In reply to GigEM96

GigEM96 said:
Crane fired a GM after winning a World Series because he didn't like the cut of his jib.

Even at the time this was mind-blowingly stupid.

All I do is Nguyen

4:42p, 4/25/24

In reply to Unemployed

Not happening senor. Whatever is ailing this team, it's gonna take more than a simple username change.

Maybe if we bring Jobu rum? Sacrifice a chicken? Both?

agproducer

4:45p, 4/25/24

They need to change their mentality.

They need to play with a chip on their shoulder instead of -- the "woe is me, we need to play better" mentality.

It needs to be: "If they don't believe in us, eff 'em. We're going to prove them wrong."

It all starts in Mexico.

AggiEE

4:45p, 4/25/24

Our data analytics department weighs in after today:

Hall of Famer Jeff Bagwell on Astros' early season struggles: 'They have to start winning games' https://t.co/2XrLc6o2fA
— ABC13 Houston (@abc13houston) April 25, 2024

spadilly

4:48p, 4/25/24

Joe Espada said he got ejected because "I didn't agree with his strike zone today." Asked why he chose that moment, Espada said "I just got tired of watching."
— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) April 25, 2024

I'm tired of watching too.

Beat40

4:51p, 4/25/24

In reply to GigEM96

GigEM96 said:
Crane fired a GM after winning a World Series because he didn't like the cut of his jib

Crane rolled and got rid of Luhnow

Gonna be feeling the pinch at the gate a little, attendance will crater as season progresses

He signed Abreu. This signing alone prevents the Astros from having a solid 1B option.
He wasn't willing to pay JV, but then went out an got him, which only cost us two prospect that might have been a part of the future.
He signed Montero - currently 50/50 on working out, but still an overall dumb signing.
He was so invested in Hader he didn't leave any room to sign any other bullpen arms that were out there.
He passed on paying Hicks

And yes - he fired the one GM other than Lunhow who knew how to find cheap guys that could produce, most likely, by my read of the situation, because he didn't support Crane's idea of signing big names to big money, which seems like a pretty smart thing sitting here today. He didn't like the cut of his jib because Click wasn't willing to go for big names. Lunhow was, but did it in a smart way.

So yeah, his decisions have put the Astros in a position where they are today.

And, everyone's answer for how the season is going is to fire Espada when these guys have been listening to essentially the same hitting, pitching, and bench coaches that have been around for 2-5 years.

This team's currently performance is 90% on the players and 10% the GM.

Frok

4:57p, 4/25/24

Boiling Denim

4:59p, 4/25/24

Any coach that was here for 2019 WS and 2023 ALCS should have been fired this offseason. It's embarrassing we have managed to do twice what no other team has done in 100 years at home.

It's no wonder these guys have checked out

Beat40

5:05p, 4/25/24

In reply to Boiling Denim

Boiling Denim said:
Any coach that was here for 2019 WS and 2023 ALCS should have been fired this offseason. It's embarrassing we have managed to do twice what no other team has done in 100 years at home.

It's no wonder these guys have checked out

Sure - you know there are coaches that were on the 2019 who were a part of the 2021 World Series team, right? You also know many of the same coaches that one the 2021 WS are also still with this team right?

Wabs

5:05p, 4/25/24

In reply to EastCoastAgNc

EastCoastAgNc said:
MaxPower said:
Trade Tucker, Framber, JV, and Bregman then give Soto his half billion dollar bag this offseason.
On the block:
- Tucker
- Framber
- Bregman
- JV
- Pressley
- Carantini
- Dubon
- Chas / Jake
- Dana Brown
- Jim Crane

I said a about a week ago. The only untouchables are Altuve, Yordan, Pena, Diaz and Javier. Everyone else I'd be willing to part with. The only possible exception is Tucker if he's willing to take a reasonable deal on extension - very unlikely but who knows. Tucker would be our most valuable trade piece, and then possibly JV if he keeps pitching well up to the deadline. And then Framber is he comes back healthy/effective.

I'm worried most everyone else won't bring in much. At least not enough to re-stock our bare farm.

I'm also at the point where I think we need a complete reset on the coaching staff. We need to rid ourselves of any remnant of the 2023 season. Would love to bring in Tito to steer us through a mini-rebuild.

Boiling Denim

5:08p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

Beat40 said:
Boiling Denim said:
Any coach that was here for 2019 WS and 2023 ALCS should have been fired this offseason. It's embarrassing we have managed to do twice what no other team has done in 100 years at home.

It's no wonder these guys have checked out

Sure - you know there are coaches that were on the 2019 who were a part of the 2021 World Series team, right? You also know many of the same coaches that one the 2021 WS are also still with this team right?

Didn't stop us from getting rid of the GM and head coach. So why did we stop there

redline248

5:18p, 4/25/24

In reply to AggiEE

AggiEE said:
We really need to try something new at 1B

Dubon? Surely he can play? Singleton is just a massive disappointment

Singleton is massive, but I'm not sure he's doing any worse than expectations to actually be a disappointment

Ag_07

5:20p, 4/25/24

For the record...Click wasn't fired

Beat40

5:20p, 4/25/24

In reply to Wabs

You guys are so damn emotional and have become just as bad as Yankees fans.

The majority of this coaching staff has been here since 2019, which they have seen more success than just about any coaching staff in baseball the last 20 years.

So yeah, let's just retool the coaching staff because the elite bullpen wasn't resigned because the owner has a boner for Hader alone, Bregman having the absolutely worst April of his career aside from his rookie season, Abreu (who the owner pushed to sign without a GM) isn't a baseball player anymore, Yordan who can't seem to find his power stroke, and Tucker, who while having a great season, is a singles machine with men on base.

Of course the answer is retool the coaching staff.

tjack16

5:21p, 4/25/24

In reply to MaxPower

MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change pitching/hitting coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Beat40

5:21p, 4/25/24

In reply to Ag_07

Ag_07 said:
For the record...Click wasn't fired

It's kind of a to-ma-to, to-mah-to when he wasn't offered a contract. WS series GM was basically let go because Crane wanted big names.

Beat40

5:24p, 4/25/24

In reply to tjack16

tjack16 said:
MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Like getting rid of the manager who has been here the all of these guys since 2019 a month into his managerial career and likely him not getting another shot a manager spot for a very, very long time, right? Just no accountability for the players, right?

Ag_07

5:25p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

People upset about the coaching staff just want to see heads roll. They forget this was Hinch's staff too.

Also if the bullpen guys were performing up to their standard no one would be bltching about Crane not addressing the entire BP.

The tools are there...They're just not performing as expected.

tjack16

5:26p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Like getting rid of the manager who has been here the all of these guys since 2019, right? Just no accountability for the players, right?

Coaches… not manager.

Aka hitting and pitching coaches

redline248

5:27p, 4/25/24

In reply to Ag_07

Ag_07 said:
For the record...Click wasn't fired

technically

but for all intents and purposes he was run out of town

Deluxe

5:27p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

Beat40 said:

Wasn't this the team that everyone said last year anyone can manage? Didn't everyone say any of use from TexAgs could have managed them to the ALCS?

So, it's either 2 options - 1) Dusty Baker actually is a good manager or 2) These players are letting Joe down in a big way.

While I personally think Dusty is a pretty decent manager, I lean more towards these players are letting the guy they supposedly love down. These aren't fresh from the farm guys. There is an MVP, a runner up for MVP, and two MVP candidates batting 1-4 with a WS MVP batting 6th. There are 3 all-stars in the back of the bullpen.

All except the MVP are not doing anything when it counts. Could that be the manager? I guess. But Espada has been in that dugout the past couple of years helping prepare that team on a daily basis. The leaders supposedly love Espada.

They are not playing like it, and I'm putting this more on them at this point in the season.

You're one of the best posters on here and this is much more meant to be conversational than argumentative. Also just wanted to scatter-shoot some other takes.

I was never as down on Dusty as most were. He did his job in 2020-22 (kept our heads high post-scandal and we won). By last year he had worn out his welcome and was doing alot of dumb sh*t. I generally maintained that he was probably doing little things behind the scenes to help offset some of it. Overall, his term was very successful. I don't want him back tho. Not even a little bit.

IMO Espada is a really good foot soldier. He's got a modern view of the game and is willing to let the analytics drive decisions. Seems like a solid clubhouse leader/organizer and communicator. In the right circumstance, I think he could be a very good manager (ie 2017-2019 when we had the best nerds in the game driving decisions).

Is he the right manager for the 2024 Astros? Maybe, maybe not. I really don't know. But I also don't think things would be much better with a different type of manager (ie a "let's get fired up" guy, a "rah rah" guy or an "old school baseball" guy).

****

Before going too much further, I want to briefly preface that I don't rule out the possibility that we could turn things around this year. There's evidence to suggest that if can start hitting w RISP and/or we get our rotation healthy and/or our back-end bullpen performs that we'll ascend back up the standings as the year goes on. It's freaking April.

But as someone who has tended to stay on the stoic/optimistic side when it comes to the Astros (over the last eight years anyway), I also agree that something smells different this year. Something isn't adding up.

****

IF the dynasty is in fact crumbling before our eyes, I think Espada is very very low on the blame list. The problem is deeply organizational (not attributable to any one factor) and has been building for a few years now. We've just done a really good job at patching holes the last few years.

My opinion is that we've lost our analytical edge. Partially due to a naturally occurring sequence of events. Partially due to some changes in the broader game. Partially due to influence of some former players who got the owner's ear and convinced him Click was too much of a nerd and wasn't a "baseball guy". Partially due to the owner stepping too deeply into our baseball decision making. Partially due to hiring a "baseball guy" instead of a nerd as our new GM.

In fairness, I think there is credence to the idea that you can only retain an analytical/nerd advantage over the league for so long. Eventually your best staff members get poached and ideas that were once cutting edge trickle out to the rest of the league and become more common practice.

There's also been a movement in the game to try and dilute the advantage of certain analytics. Pitch clocks, defensive alignment limitations, promoting more stolen bases, fewer in-division games against teams you've had more time to scout, etc. These all carry little ramifications of how much impact analytics can have.

But we've done a lot of it to ourselves. I love Diaz and want his bat in the lineup. But it's important to remember that he's in the lineup because of his bat. His learning curve as a game-management catcher is still very steep. Thinking he could come in and manage the staff without missing a beat is about as silly as the 2023 Cardinals thinking Wilson Contreras could come in and manage their staff as well as Yadi.

Does our pitching success only come down to catcher? Of course not. Did Maldy always make the right calls? Of course not. But when you take away Maldy's institutional knowledge of our staff (what they can throw, when, it what counts, against which types of hitters, etc) and combine it with our nerd exodus that Maldy helped cover up day-to-day, it's not gonna be pretty. IMO Click would have known that. It would have been nice to have Maldy back in a bench coach role but he wasn't ready to retire yet. Womp womp for us, I suppose.

If the season continues to look lost in mid/late May, I'd get the White Sox permission to talk to Maldy about a trade and say "listen we'll let you play a farewell season with the Astros and ride off into the sunset as JV's personal catcher. But that will be your only start each week. When you're not catching, we need everything you've got. You'll get to the park early every day and gameplan and sit next to Espada during the game and instruct Diaz between innings. And next year, you'll agree to come back as a coach."

Would that be enough to get us back on track? I have no idea. I just think we've quickly gone from smartest team in the league in terms of our pitching in 2022 to one that seemed patched together last year (lost Click + nerds) to one that seems totally lost today (lost Maldy).

Bringing Maldy's knowledge back into the clubhouse only goes so far in rectifying our bigger picture organization issues. Ultimately, any fixes that I would like to see require Crane to take a step back from his enhanced role in our front office and I don't think that's going to happen.

Even though his impact on the club is still incomplete and it would be unfair in many ways to can him, I would personally look to go a different direction from Dana Brown as GM if this season turns out to be a disaster. We need someone who Crane can lean on more comprehensively. Being the smartest team in the league has to start at the top. We had that with Luhnow and Click and they prioritized our analytical advantage. Brown may be an excellent scout but no one is ever going to confuse him for being the smartest guy in the room. He's a "baseball guy" who I'm sure Bags and Reggie love but the game has moved on.

LOL that turned out way longer than I thought. Enjoy the banter fellas. Hopefully better days are ahead.

Beat40

5:28p, 4/25/24

In reply to tjack16

tjack16 said:
Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Like getting rid of the manager who has been here the all of these guys since 2019, right? Just no accountability for the players, right?

Coaches… not manager.

Aka hitting and pitching coaches

So calling for Tito wasn't wanting Espada to be gone? You'll just start with hitting and pitching coaches until Tito is healthy and then kick Espada to the curb, correct?

GigEM96

5:29p, 4/25/24

Abreu is checked out, maybe since he's no longer heir apparent to closer role?

Pressly had a good outing last time, maybe he's figuring it out.

Haderade, man, he had a bad stretch a couple years ago and then figured it out again

tjack16

5:30p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Like getting rid of the manager who has been here the all of these guys since 2019, right? Just no accountability for the players, right?

Coaches… not manager.

Aka hitting and pitching coaches

So calling for Tito wasn't wanting Espada to be gone? You'll just start with hitting and pitching coaches until Tito is healthy and then kick Espada to the curb, correct?

It was a tongue in cheek post. In zero way do I actually think Espada is the issue. But yes I'd love to have Tito as a bench coach like how Ron Washington was in Atlanta

Wabs

5:33p, 4/25/24

In reply to Beat40

I'd be interested to hear what changes you'd make (if any).

EastCoastAgNc

5:38p, 4/25/24

Source: the Astros are optioning right-hander J.P. France to Triple-A Sugar Land ahead of their trip to Mexico City. That will clear a roster spot for Framber Valdez, but does prompt some questions about how their rotation lines up going forward.
— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) April 25, 2024

Likely to save options on spaghetti

GigEM96

5:43p, 4/25/24

Need to send Brown down for a spell

Need to drop Bregman in the order

End some of the entitlement for these guys, maybe that will wake them up

MaxPower

5:45p, 4/25/24

In reply to GigEM96

Think Brown needs to go to the pen. Let him throw 98 for 2 innings.

Beat40

5:51p, 4/25/24

In reply to Wabs

Wabs said:
I'd be interested to hear what changes you'd make (if any).

Sure.

1. I'd DFA Abreu. I've seen enough that I think he's not a baseball player anymore. I don't think I'd call Loperfido up at this point, but I'd kick the tires on Belt again and probably just pay.

2. I'd move Bregman down to 6 or 7 even though he got a couple of hits today.

3. I'm not saying don't make any coaching changes. I'd strongly consider changing Cintron as the hitting coach. I don't like the approaches a lot of these guys have had since really last year. I think the pitching coaches have largely been fine.

4. I'd give Espada the whole year. I think a lot of the core guys are under performing who are professional enough and he's not getting a fair look.

5. I don't think there are many roster changes you can make unless you are truly punting on this year, and the division is bad enough to where I can't make that decision until mid May at earliest. After mid may and no run has been made, then we can talk about if we are going to look to try to get something for some of the guys on the team currently to semi-rebuild the farm.

West Roxbury

5:51p, 4/25/24

W

5:54p, 4/25/24

the coaching staff would not be fired because of the struggles of the veteran players like Bregman and Jose Abreu

the staff would be fired for being unable to develop or further develop Chas, Jake, Yainer, Pena, et al

this coaching staff had it easy when the lineup was 7-deep with veteran hitters. Didn't need the young guys to do much. But that's not the case now

Beat40

5:57p, 4/25/24

In reply to tjack16

tjack16 said:
Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
Beat40 said:
tjack16 said:
MaxPower said:
tjack16 said:
It'll suck if we have to trade JV because I think he's still got a great season in him and so far this year he's been solid. But he would fetch a lot.

Extend Tucker and Framber if you can. Build you're core around the following

Position players: Altuve, Yordan, Tucker, Diaz, Pena
Pitchers: Framber, Javier, LMJ, Garcia, B Abreu

Anybody else I'm okay with trading away
So trade the losers, which will get you with nothing, and replace them with guys from the worst farm in MLB? Is this Jeff or Reggie?

I'm not in full rebuild yet. We have enough pieces to win given it's the same roster pretty much as our 2022-2023 teams

I just think you cut some fat, change coaches, and improve a few positions with younger/cheaper talent.

Like getting rid of the manager who has been here the all of these guys since 2019, right? Just no accountability for the players, right?

Coaches… not manager.

Aka hitting and pitching coaches

So calling for Tito wasn't wanting Espada to be gone? You'll just start with hitting and pitching coaches until Tito is healthy and then kick Espada to the curb, correct?

It was a tongue in cheek post. In zero way do I actually think Espada is the issue. But yes I'd love to have Tito as a bench coach like how Ron Washington was in Atlanta

Then I apologize. I was being just as emotional as everyone else.

Beat40

6:06p, 4/25/24

In reply to W

W said:
the coaching staff would not be fired because of the struggles of the veteran players like Bregman and Jose Abreu

the staff would be fired for being unable to develop or further develop Chas, Jake, Yainer, Pena, et al

this coaching staff had it easy when the lineup was 7-deep with veteran hitters. Didn't need the young guys to do much. But that's not the case now

Yainer hasn't even played a full year - how can you even use him to evaluate the staff to this point regarding Yainer not even a month in to the season? He seems to be handling the starters and relievers outside of Abreu, Pressly, and Hader pretty decently. I honestly love his oppo approach at the plate with RISP. We'll see if it pays off for him and he can reign in the approach to going after pitches closer to the edge than 2-3 inches off the plate.

Pena is MUCH improved this season to date

Jake - Baker wouldn't even play the guy last year and he didn't play in 2021. How do you even have a comparison? He's at least been a guy who has had some lift to the ball.

Chas - He was much better last year than he was the year before. How do can you confidently say Chas isn't a slow starter like Bregman at this point?

Just not sure the guys you picked solidly proved the staff needs to be fired.