[Don't bring your basketball board rant over to the baseball board. Don't expect any more warnings--Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 4/21/2014 9:30p).]

quote:

---

The idea that we should just assume Childress is safe and that Hyman is not going to do anything is exactly the state of mind that Hyman wants from the fanbase. He wants us to just assume that the coach is safe so that we will sit idly by and become apathetic. He has so distanced himself from the fans that it makes us as fans feel powerless so we give up.

---

The furor isn't even at basketball levels. We can be as upset as we want, but it obviously didn't hold sway with the basketball decision. It seems to me that there are a few influential people that make more money than Texags posters who really decide when these moves are made.

quote:

---

Say what you want about Bill Byrne, but he made fans feel like their voices were heard. He responded to your emails (or one of his people did at least). He was visible at athletic events and fundraisers. He was accessible and he also communicated to the fans more regularly.

---

Ok. Bill Byrne handled the Mark Johnson termination as terribly as anyone could. No professional would have handled anything that way. Despite what people may have deserved to be insulted by him, he broke decorum again by calling back and insulting a fan on their voicemail. He built his reputation on building up non-revenue sports that most fans couldn't tell you we are good at and let football flounder for the vast majority of his tenure, giving Fran an extension after a 7 win season. He was completely backwards in his handling of the SEC transition, and according to revealed emails, was basically scared that we wouldn't be good enough in the SEC and so he thought we should compete in the smaller pond for eternity. Also, oddly skimmed, he hired Childress.

But, he did answer emails.

While I think Hyman has failed to do anything competent so far, distancing yourself from the fans doesn't seem like the worst move. He's given paint-by-number answers in typical AD speak and remained anonymous beyond what seems like a yearly interview. Even after the basketball debacle, it's not like the pitchforks and torches crowd actually took to the streets. I can't imagine emails are ever moving him to action.

I'm not saying that if possible, A&M shouldn't look to make the best baseball hire possible. But there's nothing about Hyman's record here that makes a move at baseball coach seem like it's about to happen. If he'll let revenue basketball tank, a team with a postseason history and Top 10 attendance doesn't seem like it would be on his to-do list. Maybe he holds more sway on baseball and is saving his one big move for that sport, but seeing as he just handed out the extension, I doubt it.

Since men's basketball is the only sport other than football that brings money into the athletic department and actually does not lose money (i.e. it made $3.2M after expenses vs. baseball losing $770K), i think we have to fix basketball first.

having said that; my wife and I are big time college baseball fans and have supported the team with season tickets and money towards the program for a number of years now. I think it is time for a change; we seem to be getting worse and worse each year and SEC baseball is as tough as SEC football is.

just a few weeks ago we were ranked:

8th in ERA
9th in scoring
9th in defense
dead last in scoring with RISP
etc.

So the question is-

are the other teams that much more talented than we are? Are our players that badly over rated?

or...

do we have a serious coaching issue?

Rob has done pretty darn good when we have world class over powering pitchers- they help hide/overcome a bad defensive, poor base running, poor hitting, etc. team. we do not have good pitching this year at all- and all of our other ills are severely highlighted.

so we need to either get rid of all of our current players and start over or make some serious changes in our coaching staff.

first of all, Childress will be back next season whether the Ags make or miss the postseason in 2014.

looking ahead to 2015 (and assuming Mengden's struggles are due to injury), the Ags will have a very, very veteran team. The weekend rotation is already in place with Mengden, Grayson, and Stubblefield.

with Birk's and Banks' improvement, next year's lineup has perhaps just 2 or 3 openings: CF, C, and LF.

I don't recall who all is in the incoming recruiting class, but the Ags need to add 2 or 3 bullpen arms and 2 or 3 new sticks. Childress would have one more year (2015) to do something with this group of veteran players

quote:

---

Childress would have one more year (2015) to do something with this group of veteran players

---

The question is what is the definition of "something"?

Is it making the post season, but nothing further?

I think that is the question --- what is the threshold of success?

I think it should be higher than simply making a regional....

And if we can't go any further han a regional this year, there should be a change, and if not, the drumbeat is totally justified...

At some point somebody has to have the guts to stand up and dare to break free of 60 years of post season futility...

If Hyman won't do it, get somebody who will







[This message has been edited by Captain Pablo (edited 4/21/2014 12:09p).]

For the most part, this discussion has been relatively reasonable, particularly given the passion we've all had on both sides.

I'm with the group that think RC should be replaced. However, I can see it both ways. My feelings are his inconsistent record at being able to make the CWS and super-regionals, our generally poor hitting virtually every year, his exceptionally poor relationship with the fans, and that we are apparently being characterized as a "hitter's graveyard", to copy a poster. Also, despite being known as a pitcher's coach, we really haven't pitched that well this year, and we never have had a real staff - we always seem to have some exceptional pitchers and then very little.

One thing no has mentioned is that for both softball and baseball, our move to the SEC was a real step-up in competition. We may have seen a few really good teams before, but in this league everyone can beat you all the time. I think that's an adjustment that we have to make and will take a bit more time to come.

I can already hear the posters saying "What about football?" I think the exceptional job done by Sumlin and the presence of a Heisman trophy quarterback masked the difficulty of that transition and gave us all a false sense of how easy that would be. Thinking back last season, I have no doubt that if we had been able to play our Big whatever schedule with Manziel, we would have been in the National Championship Game versus Alabama. But now we are having to adjust in all our sports to playing every game. Big transition.

How about me?

I'll work for a discount.

Fine by me

quote:

---

It's perfectly natural the fan base at some point starts wanting a change, and speculating on a replacement

---

It is natural, but not likely to induce changes in our softball or baseball coaching decisions. Only a few "fans" participate in calling the shots, and the AD is, apparrently, a bystander who is focused primarily on protecting himself. Not being able to compete at a high level in the SEC will be tolerated.

Being one of the top 64 teams to be selected for the baseball and softball tourneys is a low bar for determining success. Think about it...64 teams...64. The real measure of success is making a super regional with regularity and periodically winning games in the CWS and WCWS.

RC and JE have not shown they are formidable coaching forces on the national level. In a world where you must demand and pay for excellence, our programs are watching others from the sidelines. Just MHO.

After 8 years 1 cws appearance, 0 cws wins and 0 national seeds those are the three stats that matter to me. The rest is just filler. We are most likely not adding anything to those three either. Childress has proven he can't get the job done here. If you are happy with just being good enough to make the tourney then Childress is a great coach for you. If you want an elite program Childress needs to be fired.

That said the first person I want fired is hyman because bk is still here and I doubt he does anything about Childress.

quote:

---

first of all, Childress will be back next season whether the Ags make or miss the postseason in 2014.

looking ahead to 2015 (and assuming Mengden's struggles are due to injury), the Ags will have a very, very veteran team. The weekend rotation is already in place with Mengden, Grayson, and Stubblefield.

with Birk's and Banks' improvement, next year's lineup has perhaps just 2 or 3 openings: CF, C, and LF.

I don't recall who all is in the incoming recruiting class, but the Ags need to add 2 or 3 bullpen arms and 2 or 3 new sticks. Childress would have one more year (2015) to do something with this group of veteran players

---

This is the same argument every year. Childress couldn't get a national seed or a cws win with wacha, stripling and naquin core group. I doubt he can do better with this group.

Couldn't agree more with rlag09

To replace Sawyers, look at Chris Clemmons, he would be a surprise to all

What did A&M gain when Rob replaced Mark Johnson? I can't figure that one out?

I think hyman retires after Kyle is done sometime in late 2015/early 2016.

I think you will see some coaching replacements after that, unless some big donor wants to start swinging their weight around before then.

quote:

---

What did A&M gain when Rob replaced Mark Johnson? I can't figure that one out?

---

Last six years under MJ:
2000 - Worst season in 40 years. Failed to make tournament.
2001 - Failed to make tournament.
2002 - Failed to make tournament.
2003 - Lots of JC transfers. Hosted Regional.
2004 - Year two with JC guys. Made Super Regional.
2005 - Failed to make tournament.

Rob Childress:
2006 - Ugly off-season with several of MJ's players losing their scholarships. Failed to make tournament.
2007: Host and Super
2008: Host and Super
2009: Regional
2010: Regional, Tournament champions
2011: CWS, Big 12 Champs, Big 12 tournament champs
2012: Host Regional
2013: Regional


[This message has been edited by dabo man (edited 4/21/2014 5:59p).]

I like Childress but it is quite possible that he is entering a the same run of missing the postseason more often not that MJ saw towards the end of his career.

Losing SEC records are rewarded by Hyman, not frowned upon

You people need to manage your expectations. We're just little ole Texas A&M.

We are only 2 players away from making the playoffs this year--- Babe Ruth and Sandy Koufax!

Dabo-Strong post with nothing but facts. Thanks.

Add in 2008 that we won the regular season Big XII Title.

The case against MJ when he was fired was that he missed the NCAA tournament four out of his last six years. The best case that could be made against Rob, if we miss the tournament this year, is that the four year trend--CWS, early exit from a home regional, barely making a regional, then missing out altogether--is so clearly in the wrong direction as to merit a change.

Objectively, the case for a change was a lot stronger when we fired MJ than it would be if we fired Rob, but, expectations should be higher now than they were then (we're in a tougher league, and we have first class facilities).

One thing to keep in mind with regard to the original topic of this thread--I can't determine this as a fact since my A&M baseball history only goes back so far, but, we haven't hired a new head coach with previous college head coaching experience in this half century, and possibly never. If we do make a change, going for an established coach would be something we've never done (at least not in my lifetime).

More fun facts:

CWS Single Game Wins:
2006 - 0
2007 - 0
2008 - 0
2009 - 0
2010 - 0
2011 - 0
2012 - 0
2013 - 0

CWS Appearances:

2006 - N
2007 - N
2008 - N
2009 - N
2010 - N
2011 - Y
2012 - N
2013 - N

Super Regional Game Wins

2006 - 0
2007 - 0
2008 - 0
2009 - 0
2010 - 0
2011 - 2
2012 - 0
2013 - 0

Post regional appearances in last 5 years - 1

No super regional this year and it's time for a change






[This message has been edited by Captain Pablo (edited 4/21/2014 10:00p).]

[See basketball comments, above--Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 4/22/2014 10:03a).]

Uhm staff, you do know I'm an infamous BK pumper according to the basketball board, Whatever, I think there was a misunderstanding re my post though.

[This message has been edited by txag72 (edited 4/22/2014 12:21p).]

"....(being one of the 64 best teams), then Childress is your man."

How I wish NCAA tourneys would not have automatic qualifiers so that people would quit trying to say you are worse than no. 65 if you don't make a tourney. Having said that, I agree with the premise that we should be in the top 30 or so every year, except for one huge caveat in baseball.

That's that so much HS talent goes pro and it's not a matter of recruiting the "best players". You have to recruit the best players that aren't going pro. Then have them make grades, etc. For that reason, I give college baseball coaches a lot of rope when they have have a down year or even years if they have a over-all history of winning and developing players. Childress won't be going anywhere soon unless next year is just some kind of total disaster.

quote:

---

But sitting in one of the 3-4 biggest hotbeds in the country for recruiting with a $21 million renovated stadium and the fan support at A&M, making a regional should not be considered the measuing stick of success.

---

Yep. We should have higher standards than that. Particularly now that we're in the SEC. The competition is tougher. If we're ok with a mediocre program, we're going to finish middle to the bottom most years.

"[Don't bring your basketball board rant over to the baseball board. Don't expect any more warnings--Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 4/21/2014 9:30p).]"

Why has it been allowed over there for the last 6 months? Relatively sane on this board, wish it was on the basketball board.

quote:

---

Objectively, the case for a change was a lot stronger when we fired MJ than it would be if we fired Rob, but, expectations should be higher now than they were then (we're in a tougher league, and we have first class facilities).

---

I agree expectations are higher now, and the anxiety only grows. But the timing is critical. It must be done when the coach we want is available. I wish we'd gotten George Horton before Oregon did, but that ship's sailed. Who's the next one we can poach? The RC experiment has clearly failed. I'm hopeful Hyman is biding his time, while developing a strategy to secure the "right" man. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

Boerne,

I disagree. I do not think you wait around for that sure thing to become available, while hanging on to an underachiever

There are no "sure things" and how long do you "bide your time" waiting? 2 years? 3? 4? Forever?

I simply will NEVER agree with the notion that you should hang on to a coach because of uncertainty in a replacement

You pay an AD a million dollars a year to be ready in the event a coach resigns or needs to be let go.

And when change is warranted, as it may be this year IMO, you do your homework, go out and get the best available and hope it works out..

Respectfully, it is the same argument made by Aggies every time a coach's seat warms up -- hang on because we fear the unknown

That is no way to build championship programs...

You misunderstand me. I've been ready to replace RC for several years now, convinced we've already seen his "best". I'm "hopeful" Hyman is equally convinced (but doubt he is) and focussing in on "his guy". Who are "your" guys?

I think that 9 years has given us a representative sampling of what we can expect from Rob, and that it's not quite what it should be--not awful, by any stretch, just not the level we were hoping for when we made a change last time. The problem, as I see it, is that even if you think that 9 year record isn't good enough, we never fire a coach whose team makes the tournament. So, if we don't make the tournament this year, but still don't make a change, then we're probably signing on to a long stretch of the same because, for all Rob's faults, he does regularly make the tournament.

quote:

---

You misunderstand me. I've been ready to replace RC for several years now, convinced we've already seen his "best". I'm "hopeful" Hyman is equally convinced (but doubt he is) and focussing in on "his guy". Who are "your" guys?

---

I have no confidence in Hyman's leadership when it comes to building championship programs, and have no doubt there will be no change short of 2 or 3 years of not making the post season. Hyman, intentionally or not, has revealed his priorities and it's not winning

As for my ideas for replacements, I have none. Zero. Nada... I wish I did but I don't and it wouldn't matter anyway. Not my job to have a list of replacements. That's Hyman's job...

Now, all that said, I have tried to be fair in my meaningless fan commentary. I was not in favor of making a change last year. I think Rob's trip to Omaha was sufficient to warrant another 2 years no questions asked

But time is up. The last two years were not what A&M baseball standards for success should be, post season or not because MAKING A REGIONAL SHOULD NOT BE THE THRESHOLD FOR SUCCESS AT A&M. Not with our location, available talent pool, facilities, and fan support...

In my opinion, yes, just my opinion, we should withhold judgement until the season is complete. We can still be successful, especially if the bats continue to heat up...

As long as we are not "out of it", there is a chance, and we should support the program in all respects

But, at the end of the day, if we miss a super regional, that's 5 of 6 years of missing post regional play

At that point, we will know the ceiling, IMO, and it will be time to make a change for the betterment of the program...














[This message has been edited by Captain Pablo (edited 4/23/2014 10:28a).]

RC will not be replaced anytime soon, IMO. It would take a complete collapse for him to be released and that won't happen.

Be content to work with Rob and his style.

It's not his "style" I have a problem with as much as his results, although no doubt they're related!

He's trolling, Boerne